What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rulakir]

The fact that people keep having to explain what they were supposedly trying to do with the story just makes it worse. It's a video game. I wanted something cohesive and entertaining from the writers, not something that's written around song lyrics with philosophical and religious themes. It's not that I have an issue with the themes by themselves, it's that as presented in EW I don't believe they made for a compelling or even good story. They seemed to be trying way too hard to be deep at the cost of character and narrative integrity.

[Teraq]

They seemed to be trying way too hard to be deep at the cost of character and narrative integrity.

"Wow, you guys are paying close attention to this game." -YoshiP, Feb 2022 Q&A, on the question relating to remaining Sundered Ascians and whose masks Gaius had on his belt.

I wonder if YoshiP knows the reason why people had assumed a lion-shaped Ascian mask would become significant in Endwalker...

[Lauront]

The fact that people keep having to explain what they were supposedly trying to do with the story just makes it worse. It's a video game. I wanted something cohesive and entertaining from the writers, not something that's written around song lyrics with philosophical and religious themes. It's not that I have an issue with the themes by themselves, it's that as presented in EW I don't believe they made for a compelling or even good story. They seemed to be trying way too hard to be deep at the cost of character and narrative integrity.

They did say the following, after all:

Yoshida: I touched on this in a previous answer as well, but I would be delighted if Final Fantasy XIV served as a catalyst for people to ponder about themselves, their surroundings, parents, siblings, friends, and society, instead of holding onto the idea that good is rewarded and evil is punished. That said, we are entertainers, not philosophers—our greatest joy would be for players to enjoy the game, one way or another.

Not really a fan of invoking buddhism or some varying asian religion to cover up bad writing, kinda starts to smack of orientalism or something after a point.

Indeed - it needs to stand on its own two feet as presented in the story.

The fact that several Japanese players have articulated similar concerns to those of us in this thread and elsewhere on this forum has me question to what degree it really just comes down to understanding Buddhism or not, but equally, it is the writers' job to make this clearly understood if the audience is unfamiliar with the subject-matter and, IMO, they did not do this well, and it does not suffice to alter my verdict on the story, even knowing what may have potentially inspired it. Mere insertion of themes does not mean they necessarily will land well.

[Theodric]

Was the 'Buddhist' angle even officially stated anywhere? I've only ever seen it pushed by players - some of whom try to hide behind it to deflect any criticism away from certain characters.

At any rate, I still think that players invested in the lore beyond a surface level have been thrown under the bus. I still find myself thinking that the game simply doesn't feel like the FFXIV I initially invested in. All the meaningful intrigue has been replaced with burger eating and modern day glamour with over the top lyrical tracks playing over biased retellings of major plot points.

Imagine if, in FFIX, instead of seeing a city destroyed by an Eidolon we just got a sad looking Queen Brahne walking through the streets lamenting that it 'had to be this way' because her people wouldn't 'let her have the power she sought'.

It was a shame to see that the game's script still refuses to explicitly refer to the Sundering as a genocide. I can't work out why - it certainly isn't afraid to use that word when it comes to the Ascians or the Garleans.

I do think that the side quest is a step in the right direction, though it's the sort of thing we needed to be present in the MSQ's and debated by the main cast. With the amount of people who don't necessarily do side content, especially side content that is locked behind other content...then there's a risk many people will simply not see any of this.

[aveyond-dreams]

Was the 'Buddhist' angle even officially stated anywhere? I've only ever seen it pushed by players - some of whom try to hide behind it to deflect any criticism away from certain characters.

At any rate, I still think that players invested in the lore beyond a surface level have been thrown under the bus. I still find myself thinking that the game simply doesn't feel like the FFXIV I initially invested in. All the meaningful intrigue has been replaced with burger eating and modern day glamour with over the top lyrical tracks playing over biased retellings of major plot points.

Imagine if, in FFIX, instead of seeing a city destroyed by an Eidolon we just got a sad looking Queen Brahne walking through the streets lamenting that it 'had to be this way' because her people wouldn't 'let her have the power she sought'.

The current problem is that there are sectors of the community who, unironically, prefer the burger eating scenes and defend them with choice phrases such as:

"but this scene was more memorable than just another action sequence!"

"but it would ruin the mystery if they *showed* that on screen!"

I'm sorry, but when faced with these individuals all can I say is are you kidding me? Is this supposed to be some kind of joke? I hope so strongly that FFXVI represents a complete reversal of these recent writing trends and that control over the reins is passed back to them as soon as possible. I did not pick up FFXIV because I wanted a visual novel, I wanted a Final Fantasy story. Actual stakes. Intense story moments and scenes. Not eating Uber eats with my party - the people who are into that will create those comics on twitter regardless of whatever happens in the main story, so the let main story stay true to what it's supposed to be rather than pandering to social media fanclubs.

At least Yoship is somewhat starting to get a little fed up with the handling of these characters. Perhaps if the Scions weren't as insufferable as they are, the interactions with them would have served to balance out the way in which Endwalker's story was completely derailed. Instead they've been cheapened as characters and reduced to such jokes that even the top people in charge are starting to ask what is going on? Why are you doing this? This doesn't make sense for the character. However this is coming far too late, better than never at the very least.

I would not have known about what goes on in the Omega quests if not for the forums because the recent writing from the Garlemald quest completely soured me on their work. For all I knew Omega was going to become a waitress at the new Loporrit cafe at the end of the universe. I'll check it out later and see for myself, but my choice is obviously that of all 3 characters, Emet-Selch was the only one who acted logically and consistently. Venat was a fallen angel who condemned humanity, and Hermes was Hermes. Enough said.

[Misplaced_Marbles]

Imagine if, in FFIX, instead of seeing a city destroyed by an Eidolon we just got a sad looking Queen Brahne walking through the streets lamenting that it 'had to be this way' because her people wouldn't 'let her have the power she sought'.

You know why that wouldn't get the same reaction? Because Brahne is fat and ugly. If they'd rectify that, then it would work just as well.

[Theodric]

Yes, ideally more of the slice of life stuff should be locked behind side quests. It's a shame that a vocal minority act like this game is a dating sim and not...a Final Fantasy game with dragons and swords.

You know why that wouldn't get the same reaction? Because Brahne is fat and ugly. If they'd rectify that, then it would work just as well.

Fair point! It reminds me of someone I saw over on the lore forum who insisted that there was never a justification for the existence of an 'Empire'. Then they played Fire Emblem: Three Houses and suddenly they were perfectly acceptable - so long as Edelgard was in charge.

[BaconBits]

How many people do you think would be thirsting over Vauthry and unironically calling him "Daddy of Light" if he started off in his handsome form instead of transforming during his trial?

[CrownySuccubus]

Was the 'Buddhist' angle even officially stated anywhere? I've only ever seen it pushed by players - some of whom try to hide behind it to deflect any criticism away from certain characters.

Personally, I've constantly brought up all the Buddhism parallels and references in the plot, and I've never shied away from stating how bad it is.

These parallels are very much not "official", but said parallels are so spot-on that it makes the possibility of sheer coincidence unlikely. Especially given that Japanese media, in general, tends to at least reference Buddhist myth on a superficial level same way that Western media can have (just as an example) two stone slabs with writing labeled from 1 to 10 and people can instantly get that it's a Ten Commandments reference.

It was a shame to see that the game's script still refuses to explicitly refer to the Sundering as a genocide.

Even this, in a sense, is why the Buddhism reference is obvious. In Buddhist mythology, the Deva and Asura are gods who are so concerned with the pleasures or desires of their world that they are incapable of recognizing or understanding suffering. According to Buddhism, the only way these beings can ever truly escape the cycle of suffering they're trapped in is to lose their divinity and be reborn as humans who must learn how to suffer, die, and be reborn as better people until they become enlightened.

Again, I do not believe in nor agree with Buddhism, so I am in complete agreement that this neither excuses or denies that what Venat did was "genocide" even if these Buddhism parallels were true. But, again, it's the exact same vein as Christians, who also typically deny calling God wiping out the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah "genocide" and refer to it as reasonable consequences for the cities' sins.

[AziraSyuren]

Was the 'Buddhist' angle even officially stated anywhere? I've only ever seen it pushed by players - some of whom try to hide behind it to deflect any criticism away from certain characters.

No, but Buddhism is as big in the East as Christianity is in the West so the themes permeate their writing in similar ways. At that point you can just assume the allegory is there whether it’s outright stated (or even intentional) or not.