Discrepency Between Male/Female Clothing/Emotes in Regards to Performance

[Carmabis]

It's because of cultural norms and what is popularly considered attractive for men vs women. I don't know what your hangup is on "performance".

Okay, why? Why is that the cultural norm? Why are hyper-sexualized/performative outfits considered more attractive on women than men? Why is it more attractive for men to be practical? Why is it so normal to the point where, you saw the screenshot, 5+ pants turn into short-shorts the moment a female is wearing them when the pants would look COMPLETELY normal on women characters as well? The shorts are not the default design. Why? Because they look "cuter"? Why is the default female outfit "cute" or "sexy"?

[Carmabis]

This.

Plus despite what subversive elements may seek to push, many men are happy embracing their masculinity much in the same way as many women are happy embracing their femininity. Exceptions exist, of course, but they're very much a minority albeit a very vocal one at that.

What is "their" masculinity and "their" femininity? What does this mean?

[Caurcas]

What are we including in feminine clothing? Suffocating underwear in fabrics that can cause yeast infections? Heels that destroy tendon structure to the point of chronic pain and lack of ability to walk properly without them the more often they're worn? Clothes that show more skin? Bra's that exist for almost no reason for a majority of the female populace except to hide the female nipple as it has been deemed "vulgar" yet also hyper-sexualizing what's "allowed" in the form of push-up bras and cleavage? I have to assume you mean these specifically enforced clothing choices for WOMEN because if you're talking about BODY TYPES, then that's completely null as there are so many different types between the sexes, that to deem one style meant for men and one for women just through sheer "designed for them" is absurd (surely that's not your argument, that short-shorts, mini-skirts, boob windows, are all designed for the "feminine" forms out of the sheer fact that they look "better" on them, otherwise men would be wearing these as often if they were a. short b. dainty and/or c. not incredibly muscular as stereotypically, those are deemed feminine features).

So I'll assume you mean clothing designed for females. How are heels that destroy ligament integrity designed for women? Would they not look good on a man who has broad hips and long legs? That's what they're advertised to accentuate, yet somehow it's a general expectancy for women to wear them regardless of hip size/leg length and men aren't expected to wear them no matter their body shape. They would destroy men's feet just the same if they wore them as often as women were expected to (not so much as high-heel laws dont exist too often anymore, socially its still more expected out of them). How is impractical underwear that can cause multiple issues with vagina health designed more for women, when those same fabrics would cause LESS issues on men? Why are men not wearing lacey underwear more when it has an incredibly lower chance of causing any genital issues? Why are men with large amounts of breast tissue not advised to wear bras to help with back pain and/or look more put-together in a professional environment?

I know why. And you know why, as well. Men don't usually like wearing clothing designed for women because it signifies a role and that role is to be objectified. But it's a lot easier to convince women to be okay with being objectified if you argue that it's any reason BUT that.

Most female centric clothing is designed by females. Your arguments around fabrics are odd, considering you can just get clothing with different fabric. Nobody is forcing you to wear anything. Heels, Skirts, etc... are all personal choices you make. Same with glamour in 14.

[Senn]

But what do you mean "why does it matter"?

Well, why does it matter if people's preferences are socially conditioned? That doesn't change the fact people now have a preference for certain things. And if you're a business, you'd want to cater to those preferences. And this is assuming that male/female interests are solely socially conditioned, which they are not.

Where are your statistics that a majority of women prefer feminine styles?

Do I need to cite a source if I say the sky is blue, too?

You're really hung up on the whole women being objectified thing and I can sense some disdain there, but it's really not that deep. Everyone's different, people have different preferences. Not all women like feminine clothing, and that's fine. But there are plenty of women, the majority even, that do enjoy more feminine clothing because they like how they look in that style. It's as simple as that.

[Carmabis]

Because feminine clothing is constructed around the feminine form, ere go it tends to look bad on the masculine form.

Also like I get this to an extent but also I specifically asked why women don't get basic, practical versions of outfits and and men get the performative version of it. What would the equivalent of that be with pants for women and something excessive and different for men? Why does that not exist in the game? At the very least, why are there no default outfits where it's shown to be a min-skirt and then CHANGES to pants on a man at the very least!?

[Carmabis]

Most female centric clothing is designed by females. Your arguments around fabrics are odd, considering you can just get clothing with different fabric. Nobody is forcing you to wear anything. Heels, Skirts, etc... are all personal choices you make. Same with glamour in 14.

Most female-centric clothing is designed by men. Most high end fashion designers that influence style are men. Most businesses that sell clothing are ran by men. You're just wrong there. Feminine clothing was brought up, and clearly you haven't walked into a woman's underwear section where most of the underwear is either incredibly impractical or unhealthy fabrics, and if it is 100% pure cotton, it's either incredibly tight where the "breathability" is immediately non-existent or you get the completely normal underwear that you passively hear everyone make fun of as granny panties.

Except FFXIV directly is forcing women into feminine articles of clothing which is literally this entire fucking post. There are countless job outfits that exist as default pants in the item icon and then turn into skirts in the game. The Non La I specifically brought up looks like the male version in the item icon, and turns into a completely over-decorated, undyable pink version of it. Anything else?

[Lauront]

[Caurcas]

Most female-centric clothing is designed by men. Most high end fashion designers that influence style are men. Most businesses that sell clothing are ran by men. You're just wrong there. Feminine clothing was brought up, and clearly you haven't walked into a woman's underwear section where most of the underwear is either incredibly impractical or unhealthy fabrics, and if it is 100% pure cotton, it's either incredibly tight where the "breathability" is immediately non-existent or you get the completely normal underwear that you passively hear everyone make fun of as granny panties.

Except FFXIV directly is forcing women into feminine articles of clothing which is literally this entire fucking post. There are countless job outfits that exist as default pants in the item icon and then turn into skirts in the game. The Non La I specifically brought up looks like the male version in the item icon, and turns into a completely over-decorated, undyable pink version of it. Anything else?

You have tons of pant options to substitute for skirts. You have different hat options. You have options across the board.

[Carmabis]

Do I need to cite a source if I say the sky is blue, too?

Of course not! But if you say the sky is blue because a bunch of blue faries just decide to hang out up there during the day, then you'd probably have to get some proof to back it up before people started looking at you like you were crazy, which is why I clarified if those statistics would consider outside factors that actively impede a woman's life if she does not conform for the feminine standard. Because when you say "a majority of women prefer feminine styles", you're implying that your proof is just that a lot of women wear them. Clear cut example, in ffxiv, when you don't have the option to otherwise, how does that correlate to "wanting" to, rather than "feel forced to" or "have to".

Chicken or the egg, did women naturally want to keep being enforced into outfits that require rigorous focus on themselves by showing skin that they must shave before they show, shirts that show off their chest tastefully yet not too much depending on how they want to come across because their chests can't just exist, or does someone benefit from convincing women to continuously police their own outfits to fit a standard that gets the foot off their neck slightly? Would love you to take a look into objectification studies and how men literally trigger parts of their brain when viewing scantily-clothed women as if they're looking at a lamp (aka object), how people on average preform worse when theyre being watched, and how women preformed worse on a test dressed in a bathing suit than when dressed in a way they could choose with no other changed factors (no one actually watching them). Pretty interesting when it all comes together.

[Carmabis]

You have tons of pant options to substitute for skirts. You have different hat options. You have options across the board.

You misunderstand. I dont want substitutes or "different" options because I'm female and got stuck with an article of clothing that was othered from the original design. I want default clothing to exist in the game and for them to make a different article if theyre going to make a different article. I would be completely satisfied if the inherent class outfits were mini-skirt and men had to wear it as well, cause then were all in it together <3