Discrepency Between Male/Female Clothing/Emotes in Regards to Performance

[Carmabis]

um... ok

? Do you have another reason as to why men somehow are never given a mini-skirt/short-shorts variation of an outfit while the women get a practical pants option? I'll wait.

[Theodric]

? Do you have another reason as to why men somehow are never given a mini-skirt/short-shorts variation of an outfit while the women get a practical pants option? I'll wait.

Perhaps it has something to do with the simple fact that most men don't want to wear feminine clothing in general.

The FFXIV community, in particular, also has a habit of greatly exaggerating the demand and popularity of niche aesthetics.

[Carmabis]

I'd rather not see glamour go in the same direction as hairstyles and result in the majority of options being designed to be feminine or androgynous rather than masculine. At least by having distinct designs for female and male characters a greater number of players are appeased. Whereas only a tiny minority of people playing male characters would be content if every other option was designed to be 'cute' or 'girly'.

I do not care about how many men want to hyper-sexualize the female characters they play (nor women at this point honestly), and I think that a game default giving you hyper-sexualized outfits for females and being forced to use them because you physically CAN'T use the "default" version given to the males as a female is a very very bad indicator as to whether people actually want to use them or not, anyways. I agree with your last sentence tho, which is why I can't be bothered to join the discussion on giving men more sexualized articles of clothing. They already got a lot and it seems more empty than anything when it's just added on to a post asking for that specific foot to be taken OFF women's necks. As if it's anywhere near the same thing to add "oh, but step on MY neck please"

[Carmabis]

Perhaps it has something to do with the simple fact that most men don't want to wear feminine clothing in general.

The FFXIV community, in particular, also has a habit of greatly exaggerating the demand and popularity of niche aesthetics.

Why don't men want to wear feminine clothing in general?

[Caurcas]

Why don't men want to wear feminine clothing in general?

Because feminine clothing is constructed around the feminine form, ere go it tends to look bad on the masculine form.

[Theodric]

Because feminine clothing is constructed around the feminine form, ere go it tends to look bad on the masculine form.

This.

Plus despite what subversive elements may seek to push, many men are happy embracing their masculinity much in the same way as many women are happy embracing their femininity. Exceptions exist, of course, but they're very much a minority albeit a very vocal one at that.

[MsQi]

? Do you have another reason as to why men somehow are never given a mini-skirt/short-shorts variation of an outfit while the women get a practical pants option? I'll wait.

It's because of cultural norms and what is popularly considered attractive for men vs women. I don't know what your hangup is on "performance".

[Senn]

This is where the chicken or the egg comment came about with men liking masculine things and women liking feminine things, there is no inherent determining factor that says "women usually prefer this because theyre women, and men usually prefer this because theyre men". It has absolutely nothing to do with sex and everything to do with social conditioning.

I don't think it's only social conditioning. Clothing tailored to the female form is feminine. And clothing tailored around the male form is masculine. This has to do with a person's sex, too (women generally have wider hips, men have broader shoulders, etc.)
But let's say it was only social conditioning, what does it matter? It doesn't change the fact that, today, the majority of men prefer a masculine style, and women prefer feminine styles. It's what people want, so I think this demographic should be catered to as well instead of keeping all clothing the same with no variations. Feminine and masculine clothing still has a place in this game.

Clothing should not be genderlocked moving forward in my opinion. It'd be great if there were both masculine/feminine versions of popular outfits that anyone could wear. It's true that it might be a lot of work, and it's probably not a realistic request. Though I've seen unrealistic sounding requests actually get implemented into the game before, so who knows...

[Carmabis]

Because feminine clothing is constructed around the feminine form, ere go it tends to look bad on the masculine form.

What are we including in feminine clothing? Suffocating underwear in fabrics that can cause yeast infections? Heels that destroy tendon structure to the point of chronic pain and lack of ability to walk properly without them the more often they're worn? Clothes that show more skin? Bra's that exist for almost no reason for a majority of the female populace except to hide the female nipple as it has been deemed "vulgar" yet also hyper-sexualizing what's "allowed" in the form of push-up bras and cleavage? I have to assume you mean these specifically enforced clothing choices for WOMEN because if you're talking about BODY TYPES, then that's completely null as there are so many different types between the sexes, that to deem one style meant for men and one for women just through sheer "designed for them" is absurd (surely that's not your argument, that short-shorts, mini-skirts, boob windows, are all designed for the "feminine" forms out of the sheer fact that they look "better" on them, otherwise men would be wearing these as often if they were a. short b. dainty and/or c. not incredibly muscular as stereotypically, those are deemed feminine features).

So I'll assume you mean clothing designed for females. How are heels that destroy ligament integrity designed for women? Would they not look good on a man who has broad hips and long legs? That's what they're advertised to accentuate, yet somehow it's a general expectancy for women to wear them regardless of hip size/leg length and men aren't expected to wear them no matter their body shape. They would destroy men's feet just the same if they wore them as often as women were expected to (not so much as high-heel laws dont exist too often anymore, socially its still more expected out of them). How is impractical underwear that can cause multiple issues with vagina health designed more for women, when those same fabrics would cause LESS issues on men? Why are men not wearing lacey underwear more when it has an incredibly lower chance of causing any genital issues? Why are men with large amounts of breast tissue not advised to wear bras to help with back pain and/or look more put-together in a professional environment?

I know why. And you know why, as well. Men don't usually like wearing clothing designed for women because it signifies a role and that role is to be objectified. But it's a lot easier to convince women to be okay with being objectified if you argue that it's any reason BUT that.

[Carmabis]

I don't think it's only social conditioning. Clothing tailored to the female form is feminine. And clothing tailored around the male form is masculine. This has to do with a person's sex, too (women generally have wider hips, men have broader shoulders, etc.)
But let's say it was only social conditioning, what does it matter? It doesn't change the fact that, today, the majority of men prefer a masculine style, and women prefer feminine styles. It's what people want, so I think this demographic should be catered to as well instead of keeping all clothing the same with no variations. Feminine and masculine clothing still has a place in this game.

Clothing should not be genderlocked moving forward in my opinion. It'd be great if there were both masculine/feminine versions of popular outfits that anyone could wear. It's true that it might be a lot of work, and it's probably not a realistic request. Though I've seen unrealistic sounding requests actually get implemented into the game before, so who knows...

I'm glad you agree that it shouldn't be gender-locked. But what do you mean "why does it matter"? Where are your statistics that a majority of women prefer feminine styles? Do they account for how often androgynous clothing is available in women's sections of stores? Do they account for inherent bias in job markets where women are treated as unprofessional if they don't wear those "feminine" styles of clothing (or wear make-up)? Do they account for how much positive reinforcement they're given when they finally conform and how that might influence personal decision making? What demographic is being catered when women are objectified, the women who are socially conditioned into it or the men who benefit from socially conditioning them into objects?