Living Dead change idea

[Lyth]

Let's face it. If you use both Superbolide and Hallowed at very low HP totals, the two abilities are functionally identical in effect with a shorter recast on Superbolide. The penalty condition is the reason why the recast difference exists to offset it in the first place. Otherwise why would you ever want the ability with the penalty?

That's one of many reasons why the design of Living Dead is so dumb. If Living Dead is the invuln with the penalty condition attached, why does Holmgang have the shorter recast?

[The_User]

Let's face it. The "if" that you're trying to use as an excuse here don't happen very often meanwhile HG won't make you lose HP but Superbolide always force you to lose HP.


You don't realized that the freeze hp thing you came up is just a made-up "risk" that you're prepared to exploit?


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Also that person who throw around the "stockholm syndrome" word carelessly probably forget what happened to holmgang and shake. There is a difference between asking for an improvement and trying to make the job overpowered.

[NightHour]

Ummm, It might need more shield to withstand a double tank buster and some super hard tank buster. Also if you got inflicted by a dot or vulnerable debuff too your shield would get shred much faster.

"Your HP cannot go below 1, and you are shielded for 50% of your maximum HP."

[The_User]

Right, but who am I to deny the wish of the person who want to attached a shield to a pseudo invul?

[Terhix]

Also that person who throw around the "stockholm syndrome" word carelessly probably forget what happened to holmgang and shake. There is a difference between asking for an improvement and trying to make the job overpowered.

That's two words, and having an invuln that doesn't kill you would only bring it on par with other tanks, which by definition cannot make it overpowered.

[The_User]

You can have an invul that doesn't kill you without make it a better HG

[Lyth]

Holmgang has been overpowered since 2.1. It was even more overpowered when it was a 6 second death prevention ability on a 3 minute recast with knockback prevention and immobilization (and the capability to interrupt uninterruptable abilities, but that was a glitch). Standardizing it to a 10 second duration and 4 minute recast actually made it weaker. It's just that the less astute people in the room finally started to recognize that Living Dead was objectively inferior.

As long as invulns are designed with differences in mind, players are going to perceive them as having more or less value. To me, the single most important factor in an invuln's design is its recast. If you lined up Hallowed, Superbolide, and Holmgang up and asked me to rank them from best to worst, it would be:
1) Holmgang
2) Superbolide
3) Hallowed

To me, Superbolide is a better HG. But if Hallowed had the same recast as Superbolide, why would I ever want Superbolide? If Holmgang had the same recast as Superbolide, why would I ever want Holmgang? It doesn't matter if you can negate the downsides of an ability with planning. You always have more flexibility from not having the extra drawback in the first place. If you can't tolerate any sort of difference between the abilities, then you have to either homogenize invulns into a role action, or get rid of them altogether. I'd actually much prefer the latter, to be honest, but I know for a fact that many people would disagree with me on that.

Imagine for a second, if they reworked Living Dead such that it did the following:
When you prevent death, Walking Dead activates. A black overlay shows up over your personal and party HP bars showing your healers how much HP is left to cleanse. Even when that criteria is met, you still have the death prevention effect running for the full 10 seconds. And you set the recast at 3 minutes, which syncs perfectly with the likes of Benediction. Would you go for it? I think that lot of people would. I personally wouldn't enjoy that design route unless DRK was specifically a lifesteal tank, because I like being in complete control of my own ability. And I think that given that DRK is more focused on damage prevention than it is on recovering HP after the fact, it probably makes sense to have an ability that is closer in design to Hallowed than it is to Holmgang.

If it really bothers you that much, though, just give Hallowed its own unique drawback and adjust the recasts accordingly.

I think that as long as players have differing opinions on which invuln is best (assuming intellectual honesty in the discussion), then it's fine for them to have variations in performance. It's really the consensus that you should be worried about. When most people agree are able to agree that one invuln is terrible, then that's a big red flag.

[Zairava]

You can have an invul that doesn't kill you without make it a better HG

Superbolide is already better than Hallowed because of its cooldown and Holmgang speaks for itself. This isn't even counting that both GNB and WAR can support themselves through the duration of their respective invulns, but somehow DRK getting an invuln that's not an active party hindrance because they have substantially the worst self-sustain out of the tanks is a problem?

[Zairava]

Imagine for a second, if they reworked Living Dead such that it did the following:
When you prevent death, Walking Dead activates. A black overlay shows up over your personal and party HP bars showing your healers how much HP is left to cleanse. Even when that criteria is met, you still have the death prevention effect running for the full 10 seconds. And you set the recast at 3 minutes, which syncs perfectly with the likes of Benediction. Would you go for it? I think that lot of people would.

That still only makes it easier on WHM which already was the only healer who could reliably heal through it without much strain because of Benediction so it wouldn't really fix the overlying problem that makes it bad to begin with, even if it marginally helps with signalling the ability is in effect itself. Unless they actually give us good sustain again, because that was the only time LD wasn't a hindrance, but even then it was only in dungeons because we were pretty much immortal. Here's to hoping we get news on it in the liveletter

[The_User]

If the Freeze HP version of LD had the same recast as HG, why would I want HG?
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"getting an invuln that's not an active party hindrance" doesn't mean you need a better HG.