P1N Warrior solo kill

[Nizzi]

snip

At the end of the day, what seems more reasonable? That they dedicate a lot of hours of developer time to design support systems for each healer that are fun to manage while also being unique, or they restore older systems/unprune DPS actions? The latter requires less dev time as the actions, animations and abilities are mostly in the game already for jobs that previously had them like Scholar. As much as you say you don't want to be a "GOD tank" and that you want the help of your healer, look at all the sustain and heals the tanks have gotten this expansion and see that what you're asking for is more work than what we're asking for. What you're suggesting would require complete redesigns of all four healer kits, retuning of all four tanks and also retuning encounter design to make up for this buff/support system to deal with during downtime. What we're suggesting would just require them to redistribute the potency of our nukes into a few more actions and things could continue as normal.

Of course it would be nice to completely redesign all 4 healers to be fun in a way that doesn't require us to push DPS. But encounters are specifically tuned with healer DPS in mind; it was impossible to clear E8S back in ShB without healer DPS. Given that, it seems more pertinent to ask for our jobs to have more to do what we're required by the fights to do when we don't need to heal, which is quite often. Bad healers will always exist; this is not and is never a good justification for our role spamming 1 button for most of an encounter.

[Recon1o6]

snip.

Let me break down what healers are wanting since you're clearly not understanding it and have either never played a healer for any length of time or looked at the healer forums

1. More damage buttons. Same overall damage potential but spread over more buttons. Give us a skill ceiling and something fun to do during the ridiculous amounts of time we don't need to heal.
So where we might press glare/malefic/broil/dosis 20 times, make us have to press 3 or 4, juggling more dots or combos, procs, ANYTHING for the same amount of damage
2. Make everything hit harder so we're not irrelevant in so much content. Make our bloated healer kits useful and neccessary as approrpiate to the difficulty.
3. Trim those bloated healing kits. Cure 1, benefic 1, physick have no place once you hit level 40 ish for example.
4. Bring back all the fun bits of healers that have been taken away. Ast's cards and time shenanigans. Whm's self buffing and crowd control. Sch's debuffing and selene in her entirety

[Arckrin]

At the end of the day, what seems more reasonable? That they dedicate a lot of hours of developer time to design support systems for each healer that are fun to manage while also being unique, or they restore older systems/unprune DPS actions? The latter requires less dev time as the actions, animations and abilities are mostly in the game already for jobs that previously had them like Scholar. As much as you say you don't want to be a "GOD tank" and that you want the help of your healer, look at all the sustain and heals the tanks have gotten this expansion and see that what you're asking for is more work than what we're asking for. What you're suggesting would require complete redesigns of all four healer kits, retuning of all four tanks and also retuning encounter design to make up for this buff/support system to deal with during downtime. What we're suggesting would just require them to redistribute the potency of our nukes into a few more actions and things could continue as normal.

Of course it would be nice to completely redesign all 4 healers to be fun in a way that doesn't require us to push DPS. But encounters are specifically tuned with healer DPS in mind; it was impossible to clear E8S back in ShB without healer DPS. Given that, it seems more pertinent to ask for our jobs to have more to do what we're required by the fights to do when we don't need to heal, which is quite often. Bad healers will always exist; this is not and is never a good justification for our role spamming 1 button for most of an encounter.

I got what you are saying but "convenience in short term" is a bandage of a big hole bleeding which that is why I say, and you seem to agree… I am just saying that right now it is the best opportunity is because they downscale the system and and they are working on the new story so, as dev point of view u have more time for think about the jobs.

[Arckrin]

Let me break down what healers are wanting since you're clearly not understanding it and have either never played a healer for any length of time or looked at the healer forums

1. More damage buttons. Same overall damage potential but spread over more buttons. Give us a skill ceiling and something fun to do during the ridiculous amounts of time we don't need to heal.
So where we might press glare/malefic/broil/dosis 20 times, make us have to press 3 or 4, juggling more dots or combos, procs, ANYTHING for the same amount of damage
2. Make everything hit harder so we're not irrelevant in so much content. Make our bloated healer kits useful and neccessary as approrpiate to the difficulty.
3. Trim those bloated healing kits. Cure 1, benefic 1, physick have no place once you hit level 40 ish for example.
4. Bring back all the fun bits of healers that have been taken away. Ast's cards and time shenanigans. Whm's self buffing and crowd control. Sch's debuffing and selene in her entirety

No clearly I haven't clear Coils, AS, OS, ES, clear I haven't healing the 2 ex-trials... to assure you THAT that is what I say about "devs. RIP some fun skills" Clearly SCH was not my favourite healer since ARR and clearly I feel "confortable" playing it... (insert sarcasm if people don't understand it)

[Nizzi]

I got what you are saying but "convenience in short term" is a bandage of a big hole bleeding which that is why I say, and you seem to agree… I am just saying that right now it is the best opportunity is because they downscale the system and and they are working on the new story so, as dev point of view u have more time for think about the jobs.

What we're asking for is what we want to happen now, we don't want to wait another 2 years of this gameplay. If they want to take the time to design things that are fun and will occupy our time, more power to the developers, I'm on board with that. I'm not on board with waiting until potentially 2024 to have a possibility that healers won't be in a boring state. I played through all of ShB on a healer with the thought that they'd address the issues in EW, only for them to double down on it. I'm not willing to wait another 2 years for the hope that they might come up with something fun when the track record shows the opposite. I've already quit healing, but fixing downtime this expac would bring me back, at least long enough to wait for whatever potential new ideas they might come up with that would be fun. But that's the thing; they would need to tell us that they have something they're working on. Instead we get radio silence and all of our complaints ignored, so you'll have to forgive the large amount of healers that don't think they're willing to take the time to redesign our entire role.

Asking for more to do within the current design is the best solution to actually getting what we want, even if it's only a stopgap measure until the next expac - but they aren't even willing to do that.

[Insertusernamehere]

I like to play healer with proper DPS rotation (and a burst DPS phase if possible) but apparently SE will not do it, because they don't read this forum or suggestions.. unless JP community bring it up they wont do anything.

-We have people in forum who wants to only heal (and only heal means dungeons and raids will be build around newbie healer player because this is how SE do it)
-We also have another group says I have many things to do and 1 DPS 1 dot sufficient.. (tbh there is nothing to do for healer in a optimized fight other than DPS and OGCD at raid wide damage)
-We have players like me who want proper DPS rotation for healer..

Every healer same (except AST maybe due card system) and people get tired / bored of them very quickly (including me) what we need more variants on Healer role instead of reskins with minor alterations of same role.
If they are able to do it for DPS (DPS have many variants support / direct damage / basic rotation / engaging rotation) they can do it for healer.. Even tanks fells somewhat unique compared to healer because at least they have a DPS rotation.
AST a nice approach for different healer (heal and support combination). But all other healers somewhat same skill set with minor alterations with reskin.

Ty for reading, sorry grammar errors :3

[Navnav]

Sorry but healers dont need to do damage all of the time. They need to heal more often and they need to use GCD heals more often, fights have to change to accommodate that, simple as. Damage needs to happen more randomly and hit random players at random times, rather than only a standard group wide AoE. So many fights are scripted, and I think that is down to their engine being old af, it is one of the worst coded games in terms of expanding on itself, they can't change much without breaking many things so as players you simply get what the engine can offer.

In order to truly change the state of this game, they will have to make a realm reborn, reborn again...

[Deceptus]

if you wanna have fun with a fun dps rotation, play a dps.

This old, tired argument.

Wrote this well over 2 years ago and apparently is still relevant today.

[Semirhage]

Tanks can't heal the entire party from 1hp to full health in a matter of seconds. Tanks do not have nearly as much party mitigation as healers who can chuck aoe shields and mitigation on demand without waiting for long cooldowns. Tanks cannot revive downed party members.

Healers can do more than half the damage of a dps job while no dps job comes even close to the amount of healing that healers have. Same for tanks. Even WAR's healing output is nothing compared to healers, and definitely not nearly as close as healer dps is to tanks.

If we look at damage and healing together, healers contribute MUCH more than every other role and it's not even close. Why SHOULD they also do as much or more damage than any other role when they already have the greatest contribution in the party and are putting out very near the same amount of damage as tanks in the first place?

The one area where the tank role sits well and clear above healer is personal survivability/mitigation. Shocker, I know. It has MUCH less healing power, MUCH less party mitigation, NO ability to revive whatsoever and a bit more damage. I'm going to repeat myself and say that by the numbers healers in this game are crazy strong. Not being able to do everything that a tank can do doesn't change that.

You're posting this in a thread about tanks doing current extreme and savage content without a healer. What is this "greatest contribution to the party" you speak of? All this ridiculous healing potency is meaningless.

Hm, maybe we should redesign tanks. TANKS should TANK ONLY. All this damage focus you have is a distraction from what should be your main job. Let's reduce your rotation down to one melee attack, one AOE, one dot, and one weaker ranged ability. Then you can replace those cut damage abilities with four copies of Rampart, three copies of Sentinel....

Oh that would be boring, godawful embarrassing design? Because that's how healers are designed. And for that garbage design, they're still the first role to get ejected from parties, because for all that yammering about healing being the "greatest contribution" it's not. You require a baseline, after which all extra healing is useless. Damage is the only metric that doesn't come hard capped on its usefulness, and tanks bring more than healers for no reason.

[ASkellington]

Sorry but healers dont need to do damage all of the time. They need to heal more often and they need to use GCD heals more often, fights have to change to accommodate that, simple as. Damage needs to happen more randomly and hit random players at random times, rather than only a standard group wide AoE. So many fights are scripted, and I think that is down to their engine being old af, it is one of the worst coded games in terms of expanding on itself, they can't change much without breaking many things so as players you simply get what the engine can offer.

In order to truly change the state of this game, they will have to make a realm reborn, reborn again...

SE has already said they aren't going to do that. As much as we healers would prefer them to rework dungeons, trials, raids, EX and Savage to be properly tuned. And like you said, that's a rework of ARR reborn proportions.

More things to do in our down time, be it an actual dps rotation (ie. giving SCH back things like Bane/Miasma, giving WHM back Aero III) and/or more buffs debuffs (protect for WHM and better card system for AST) is literally the only way right now. That is where we're at.