The dev team did a fantastic job on the MNK rework. I love it.

[Theox]

I am a controller player and literally better at the game than you.

Cope and seethe, honey. Cope and seethe.

[AziraSyuren]

ok nerd lol

[Satarn]

technically, isn't everything on a job there to give you something to do?

Also, the entire point of video games is "giving you something to do", that's like, the whole purpose of any pass time activity in general..? I get some people disliking positionals, but this in particular is just such a bizarre "argument" against a job mechanic. What do they want - to have nothing to do and just watch paint dry or something?

[VentVanitas]

Also, the entire point of video games is "giving you something to do", that's like, the whole purpose of any pass time activity in general..? I get some people disliking positionals, but this in particular is just such a bizarre "argument" against a job mechanic. What do they want - to have nothing to do and just watch paint dry or something?

Clearly the biggest failure of the MNK main community was not gatekeeping the job hard enough.

/s

[waterboytkd]

Thunderclap is infinitely better than Shoulder Tackle

100% agree!

Also, they've never really known what to do with Riddle of Wind and Riddle of Earth ... Riddle of Wind feels very, very underwhelming - there are a number of things they could do with it, and should.

Since we don't have a ranged attack, I wouldn't mind Riddle of Wind just being another mobility button. 3 charges like Thunderclap, 10 yalm skip back. We could be teleporting all over the battlefield! :P

[ssunny2008]

technically, isn't everything on a job there to give you something to do?

Seriously it´s the worst thing, that so many ppl just don´t get this.

"It´s so busy."
"It´s so punishing."
"It´s weaker than xy".
"It doesn´t add depth."
"..."

All just subjective stuff because ppl don´t think much about it, don´t keep the whole game and any content in mind, can´t accept that not everything has to fit their taste and just judge in their own preferences. It´s not like a loyal fanbase exists exactly for this reasons.

Ofcourse it´s you, or me, or any other "positional-lover" here claiming subjective stuff too, because we miss it. But objectively seen positionals are a unique game aspect no other MMORPG offers. And as many games has different aspects... even those has a loyal fanbase here. It adds something to the gameplay as much as boss mechanics, buffs/debuffs or cast-timings add something to it. It mixes things up and offers different playstyles to the players. And while we´ve so much different classes with different playstyles, we have a choice. We have the choice to say:

- "No positionals for me."
- "I don´t want to cast."
- "I want to be tough."

or whatever. That so many ppl here and in other threads can´t get that and are just stubborn with their own greed aka "But i pay my sub!", is beyond me. That classes are getting changed to cater such ppl is nothing but frustrating. Just check out Sqwall´s or Navnav´s logs for example. Both made a crusade against positionals on MNK. But guess what? One of them haven´t even played it in any raids, while the other has 2 logs on MNK and 20+ on WAR?! Ofcourse it doesn´t have to be that accurate, but really? I´m pretty sure that´s even a thing with all other ppl who´ve been like "I don´t play MNK, but...".

It´s nothing but sad. Ppl who got tired of class aspects or never really played them show up and just to give af about it in the end, when SE finally caters them. This is just wrong and needs to be reverted. The costs weight way to high to cater such "But i want it all made for me!" minds.

Clearly the biggest failure of the MNK main community was not gatekeeping the job hard enough.

The biggest mistake has been all the complaints even from former MNK - mains.

"This is useless, this is bad, that doesn´t align well..."

Such sentences have cost the game so much on any classes. Just look a bit back and pick some skills ppl complaint permanently about.

Fists? Has anyone ever considered that FoE was made for the early game? Or to assist not so good players in the storyline? Maybe it got even used to prog some stuff? Or how about FoW? Wasn´t it great to have some extra-movementspeed with GL4? And if you didn´t perform on lvl 80, welcome to FoF...
Or what about Anatman and TK? Yeah just "another skills to play around GL". And? They solved some issues with it, they helped to min/max the output. Same with choices like FS/SSS/chakra.

Why does everything needs a proper meaning or use? Do you see a BLM casting fire or ice on max level? Does NIN ever use his slow out of PvP? Unique, rare or "just for leveling" skills aren´t a bad thing.

But no, it always lasted into "MNK needs this, MNK needs that, MNK needs a rework..." from both sides and now here is it. Vets lost everything to get catered with something half-baked without any unique aspects and the mobility-gameplay. Meanwhile newbies are still overwhelmed by the execution of PB or just don´t care for the class now after moaning for years, because there is a shiny SMN, DNC, RPR, whatever...

That ppl don´t think about the consquenzes of their moaning and just don´t give af about "others fun" is the real issues and an absolute mess.

[Icedmind]

I tried MNK first in SB so I can't tell much about the job prior to that. I found the need to build up GL and ways to keep it going quite interesting, albeit quite challenging at the start, coming from BRD and MCH. Also, the positionals was something I had to wrap my head around to get it right and flowing like water, to a point that I still find myself hitting positionals now with 4 of them removed. Overall, it now feels like an ultramobile melee BLM since the whole rotation is super-static apart from the occasional forbidden chakra pop.
Do I miss my OGCDs, my positionals and the thrill of keeping GL up at all times? To a degree, yes. Did it change the way I play MNK? Not that much. It's still my number one choice melee job and my current main, superficial flaws and all.

[Amh_Wilzuun]

People need to give this job a chance, it's one of the best DPS jobs right now with potential for skill expression. When I first tried it, it felt weird coming from Shb Monk but having gotten used to it's the job I have been coming back to to hone the most.

- PB/Blitz gives this job what it desperately needed: an actual substantial core job mechanic and powerful attacks to build up to. No longer is a level 1 GCD our most powerful ability. PB as it was in ShB felt clunky with having to force your positionals to line up in your rotation and no form shift at the end of PB meant you had to do DK twice in a row sometimes. For a burst phase it felt underwhelming. New PB gives you more flexibility and a form shift at the end for a smooth transition out, not to mention the awesome looking blitzes.

- There are already multiple rotations to choose from due to the jobs flexibility. High-end players will only know which one is best for which fight, but you as the player can choose how your monk rotation looks to an extent. Whether you want to maximize the amount of Phantom Rushes you can do, or put it under the most raid buffs. The burst on double solar feels smoother to me, while "optimal drift" necessitates knowing how to change up your burst phase depending on how demolish is doing when your cooldowns are about to pop. This has given the job a satisfying learning curve for me. When I pull with Monk I'm always looking how to better optimize and perform, which is a good thing.

- the AOE is much better now. Blitzes are ideal AOE finishers, and the new 82 aoe GCD is an excellent addition that mirrors the single target rotation with an opo-opo crit. PB in it's current state adds a lot to AOE. The low level dungeon experience is also much better of course. Monk was already one of my favorite classes to be synced down with and now it's even better.

- the six GCD form-based rotation was already a strong combo system compared to other jobs, even if positionals are removed. The job has enough going on now imo to justify removing them though

[VentVanitas]

The job has enough going on now imo to justify removing them though

Does it really, though? There are huge gaps between bursts where you're doing nothing. Don't get me wrong, the overall package is a step above ShB, but the downtime is excruciatingly boring for me. Just doing the GCD combo alone for ~40 seconds isn't engaging on its own when you've already had since level 50 to master it and Chakra in downtime isn't flexible or frequent enough to even pay attention to.

6.0 MNK is really, really close to being my favourite iteration of the job, but it's just missing a little extra touch and that makes it all the more frustrating to me in my eyes. It doesn't even need to be positionals, just something like 20-30s cooldown on PB (with potencies adjusted accordingly of course) and Chakra allowing some banking would be enough for me.

[Amh_Wilzuun]

Does it really, though? There are huge gaps between bursts where you're doing nothing. Don't get me wrong, the overall package is a step above ShB, but the downtime is excruciatingly boring for me. Just doing the GCD combo alone for ~40 seconds isn't engaging on its own when you've already had since level 50 to master it and Chakra in downtime isn't flexible or frequent enough to even pay attention to.

6.0 MNK is really, really close to being my favourite iteration of the job, but it's just missing a little extra touch and that makes it all the more frustrating to me in my eyes. It doesn't even need to be positionals, just something like 20-30s cooldown on PB (with potencies adjusted accordingly of course) and Chakra allowing some banking would be enough for me.

It's not much different from Sam or Nin or Reaper just doing their GCDs in downtime. It could be mostly 123 like Ninja but at least Monk has the faster GCD and its usual six GCDs it's bouncing between. The downtime might be boring on a striking dummy but in a real fight that "downtime" is appreciated to focus on mechanics, even in NM trials. If a job was constantly busy casual players would be turned off from it. I'm not saying jobs should be dumbed down for casuals but we aren't only playing the job we are also doing the fight and enjoying the visuals and mechanics. 40s really isn't that long to me when I'm in an actual instance with Monk. I do think some of the things you mentioned will be addressed in a later expac (gotta have something to add/improve), i.e more to do inbetween PB. With all of the movement involved in current fight design that's another reason to not have a job that has to land one on every weaponskill as to reduce frustration. Idk maybe I'm just bad at the game if I don't find myself bored during said downtime. I can kinda understand the complaint with Ninja though since it it's literally just 123 and occasionally refresh huton.