The dev team did a fantastic job on the MNK rework. I love it.

[wereotter]

I think what Theox meant was it's funny how bad the job was to play on Controller compared to Keyboard. And just the change of removing some positionals has made the class more fun to play on controller as an ultimate outcome. I for one play on controller exclusively and find it better to play now as you can focus more on what's going on around your vs. what your muscle memory wants you to do.

I'm going to offer the opposite opinion here... never played on keyboard so it's not a point of comparison as to which is easier or harder, but I never had problems adjusting for positional requirements on a controller on the job and have been maining the job since 3.2 when I initially just picked it up to get mantra for ninja. So for someone like me who never had any problem moving for my attacks, the removal of that requirement actually has for me made the job less fun to play than it used to be. I still do them just because I don't see any benefit to stop and train myself to not move. I can register mechanics and move for my attacks at the same time.

The job still feels a bit hollow to me. Blitz didn't add enough to the job to make up for what all has been removed (OGCDs, positionals, greased lightning) I don't want all those back, but there's just not much going on with the job these days, especially if you compare it to any of the other three melee jobs. Not just that, but to an earlier comment that the job still feels like a level 70 job... it feels bad that monk is the only one that didn't get any dedicated new attack at level 90. We just got an existing attack upgraded for more damage and flashier animation, in fact monk doesn't get any new dedicated skills after you hit level 74. I can't think of any other job that caps out at that low a level.

[Sqwall]

I'm going to offer the opposite opinion here... never played on keyboard so it's not a point of comparison as to which is easier or harder, but I never had problems adjusting for positional requirements on a controller on the job and have been maining the job since 3.2 when I initially just picked it up to get mantra for ninja. So for someone like me who never had any problem moving for my attacks, the removal of that requirement actually has for me made the job less fun to play than it used to be. I still do them just because I don't see any benefit to stop and train myself to not move. I can register mechanics and move for my attacks at the same time.

The job still feels a bit hollow to me. Blitz didn't add enough to the job to make up for what all has been removed (OGCDs, positionals, greased lightning) I don't want all those back, but there's just not much going on with the job these days, especially if you compare it to any of the other three melee jobs. Not just that, but to an earlier comment that the job still feels like a level 70 job... it feels bad that monk is the only one that didn't get any dedicated new attack at level 90. We just got an existing attack upgraded for more damage and flashier animation, in fact monk doesn't get any new dedicated skills after you hit level 74. I can't think of any other job that caps out at that low a level.

Fair enough. I never had a huge issue on controller either, but I will admit. It is QoL for me personally as I grew tired of the the positionals, and they always felt "tacked on" to give you something to do. I digress. The amount of control on a keyboard and mouse over a controller is purely speculative, and probably more about comfort over accessibility. Can I keybind more abilities to a 5 button mouse...of course. Can I rotate my camera and hit a button at the same time, yes. On controller it is more (not completely) cumbersome to rotate my camera to say...idk...look for snakes in zodiark EX and take my fingers off of circle/X/Triangle/Square for a second, then yes that is a slight detriment. Where in M/K you can just right left click and turn, while mashing 1,2,3.

Again...subject. Nevertheless, I have grown accustomed to playing on controller and just fine, progging p2s, cleared p1s. No means a "perfect player", but it is doable. IMO I believe M/K has a clear advantage just due to shear options it offers.

I aim to pug savage with MNK out of raid/loot locks just to see how it all shakes out, but I can say this. MNK is way more fun than it has ever been for me. Agree or Disagree it matters not to me. I'm clearing content and I don't have DPS meters....nor does my static require a certain level of DPS. Just ilevel....which the game already imposes on everyone wanting in Extreme/Savage content.

[Mikey_R]

It is QoL for me personally as I grew tired of the the positionals, and they always felt "tacked on" to give you something to do.

technically, isn't everything on a job there to give you something to do? Why have a combo when you could have 1 button you can spam to get the same PPS, why have High Jump leap to Mirage Dive which leads to LotD, why have Mudras etc. Everything is there to give you something to do, positionals is just something else to give you something to do and whilst you might think they felt tacked on, others might not. Yes, they are there to give you something to do, but it is a different something than doing actions, or memorising the Mudra combos etc.

[Satarn]

technically, isn't everything on a job there to give you something to do?

Also, the entire point of video games is "giving you something to do", that's like, the whole purpose of any pass time activity in general..? I get some people disliking positionals, but this in particular is just such a bizarre "argument" against a job mechanic. What do they want - to have nothing to do and just watch paint dry or something?

[VentVanitas]

Also, the entire point of video games is "giving you something to do", that's like, the whole purpose of any pass time activity in general..? I get some people disliking positionals, but this in particular is just such a bizarre "argument" against a job mechanic. What do they want - to have nothing to do and just watch paint dry or something?

Clearly the biggest failure of the MNK main community was not gatekeeping the job hard enough.

/s

[ssunny2008]

technically, isn't everything on a job there to give you something to do?

Seriously it´s the worst thing, that so many ppl just don´t get this.

"It´s so busy."
"It´s so punishing."
"It´s weaker than xy".
"It doesn´t add depth."
"..."

All just subjective stuff because ppl don´t think much about it, don´t keep the whole game and any content in mind, can´t accept that not everything has to fit their taste and just judge in their own preferences. It´s not like a loyal fanbase exists exactly for this reasons.

Ofcourse it´s you, or me, or any other "positional-lover" here claiming subjective stuff too, because we miss it. But objectively seen positionals are a unique game aspect no other MMORPG offers. And as many games has different aspects... even those has a loyal fanbase here. It adds something to the gameplay as much as boss mechanics, buffs/debuffs or cast-timings add something to it. It mixes things up and offers different playstyles to the players. And while we´ve so much different classes with different playstyles, we have a choice. We have the choice to say:

- "No positionals for me."
- "I don´t want to cast."
- "I want to be tough."

or whatever. That so many ppl here and in other threads can´t get that and are just stubborn with their own greed aka "But i pay my sub!", is beyond me. That classes are getting changed to cater such ppl is nothing but frustrating. Just check out Sqwall´s or Navnav´s logs for example. Both made a crusade against positionals on MNK. But guess what? One of them haven´t even played it in any raids, while the other has 2 logs on MNK and 20+ on WAR?! Ofcourse it doesn´t have to be that accurate, but really? I´m pretty sure that´s even a thing with all other ppl who´ve been like "I don´t play MNK, but...".

It´s nothing but sad. Ppl who got tired of class aspects or never really played them show up and just to give af about it in the end, when SE finally caters them. This is just wrong and needs to be reverted. The costs weight way to high to cater such "But i want it all made for me!" minds.

Clearly the biggest failure of the MNK main community was not gatekeeping the job hard enough.

The biggest mistake has been all the complaints even from former MNK - mains.

"This is useless, this is bad, that doesn´t align well..."

Such sentences have cost the game so much on any classes. Just look a bit back and pick some skills ppl complaint permanently about.

Fists? Has anyone ever considered that FoE was made for the early game? Or to assist not so good players in the storyline? Maybe it got even used to prog some stuff? Or how about FoW? Wasn´t it great to have some extra-movementspeed with GL4? And if you didn´t perform on lvl 80, welcome to FoF...
Or what about Anatman and TK? Yeah just "another skills to play around GL". And? They solved some issues with it, they helped to min/max the output. Same with choices like FS/SSS/chakra.

Why does everything needs a proper meaning or use? Do you see a BLM casting fire or ice on max level? Does NIN ever use his slow out of PvP? Unique, rare or "just for leveling" skills aren´t a bad thing.

But no, it always lasted into "MNK needs this, MNK needs that, MNK needs a rework..." from both sides and now here is it. Vets lost everything to get catered with something half-baked without any unique aspects and the mobility-gameplay. Meanwhile newbies are still overwhelmed by the execution of PB or just don´t care for the class now after moaning for years, because there is a shiny SMN, DNC, RPR, whatever...

That ppl don´t think about the consquenzes of their moaning and just don´t give af about "others fun" is the real issues and an absolute mess.