They need to find a way to detect XIV Alexander and ban people

[Shurrikhan]

So...the game communicated it to your client, you didn't notice as quickly as the plugin did so...it's psychic?

Again, the information was given BEFORE the first animation cue. Players, no matter how inhuman their reaction speed, would not yet have had any information from which to glean where to go.

That's the kind of thing that wouldn't happen at this point in WoW, for instance, because they don't send that kind of information as would be player-readable until the moment of actuation (at which point it would just be a matter of a plugin yelling at you what the visual information was already simultaneously telling you).

But as it stands, XIV offers up a significant amount of information to the client that can be read early, just not through in-game tells. That's left policing what should and should not be offered by plugins up to plugin distributors to curate or ban as they see fit.

[Somnolence]

Again, the information was given BEFORE the first animation cue. Players, no matter how inhuman their reaction speed, would not yet have had any information from which to glean where to go.

That's the kind of thing that wouldn't happen at this point in WoW, for instance, because they don't send that kind of information as would be player-readable until the moment of actuation (at which point it would just be a matter of a plugin yelling at you what the visual information was already simultaneously telling you).

But as it stands, XIV offers up a significant amount of information to the client that can be read early, just not through in-game tells. That's left policing what should and should not be offered by plugins up to plugin distributors to curate or ban as they see fit.

Cactbot is rather benign in the bigger picture. It does not make bad players good, its just 100% accurate shot-caller with maybe 1s advantage. If it causes less idiots to ruin PFs by repeatedly failing mechs then this is a good thing.

Problem is, because modding is not officially supported it makes console players second class citizens. Even PS5 players are playing visually inferior game as PC players don't even need Reshade for that, they can use NVidia Geforce Experience filters to spice the visuals up.

[Driavna]

Cactbot is rather benign in the bigger picture. It does not make bad players good, its just 100% accurate shot-caller with maybe 1s advantage. If it causes less idiots to ruin PFs by repeatedly failing mechs then this is a good thing.

Problem is, because modding is not officially supported it makes console players second class citizens. Even PS5 players are playing visually inferior game as PC players don't even need Reshade for that, they can use NVidia Geforce Experience filters to spice the visuals up.

Dumbs down any mechanics center around being aware of what the boss is doing.

[Johners]

Dumbs down any mechanics center around being aware of what the boss is doing.

In a way, combat addons like Cactbot (in FFXIV) or DBM/BigWigs (in WoW) are dumb. At the same time, having an additional UI element that pings at you when X bad spell is coming in doesn't really make you a better player. You still have to know what do with mechanics. You still have to know the effective cooldown rotation (say you're getting a timer as a tank because high tank damage is coming in). You still need to know how to effectively deal damage while managing whatever mechanic.

Having a slightly nicer UI that tracks more doesn't break the game so drastically that it needs to be urgently fixed ASAP. We don't exactly see 50% of players bursting through Savage on the first day, do we?

[Miles064]

In a way, combat addons like Cactbot (in FFXIV) or DBM/BigWigs (in WoW) are dumb. At the same time, having an additional UI element that pings at you when X bad spell is coming in doesn't really make you a better player. You still have to know what do with mechanics. You still have to know the effective cooldown rotation (say you're getting a timer as a tank because high tank damage is coming in). You still need to know how to effectively deal damage while managing whatever mechanic.

Having a slightly nicer UI that tracks more doesn't break the game so drastically that it needs to be urgently fixed ASAP. We don't exactly see 50% of players bursting through Savage on the first day, do we?

I'd say WoW does fights with dbm in mind and the base functions of dbm are part of the base game anyway so it isnt an issue. FF14 has it's own "dbm" with all the symbols and sounds that it uses so it doesnt really have a use for dbm so this "cactbot" does seem a bit off.

Hard agree on needing to still know how to deal with things though. Dbm has never told you how to solve everything together and mostly tells you some things on the field atm. The player still has to solve the puzzle of all the mechanics going out while still preforming well. One of the things I do like about ff fights over wow is that they tie these visuals to them. WoW also has the dungeon journal that you can open in game so I feel WoW isn't really trying to hide how things work. A lot of mechanics in FF and WoW are pretty simple after you figure how it works. WoW is just more upfront about it.

[Johners]

I'd say WoW does fights with dbm in mind and the base functions of dbm are part of the base game anyway so it isnt an issue. FF14 has it's own "dbm" with all the symbols and sounds that it uses so it doesnt really have a use for dbm so this "cactbot" does seem a bit off.

Hard agree on needing to still know how to deal with things though. Dbm has never told you how to solve everything together and mostly tells you some things on the field atm. The player still has to solve the puzzle of all the mechanics going out while still preforming well. One of the things I do like about ff fights over wow is that they tie these visuals to them. WoW also has the dungeon journal that you can open in game so I feel WoW isn't really trying to hide how things work. A lot of mechanics in FF and WoW are pretty simple after you figure how it works. WoW is just more upfront about it.

I don't think it's as clear cut as designing fights with or without addons in mind. It's a grey area and while I do think it's a consideration for higher level gameplay, especially when you consider WeakAuras also, you can play all of these fights on any difficulty without addons. There's a general community expectation to use these addons in a lot of content though, especially if you don't play in a raiding guild/team (static in FFXIV). This expectation also spreads into Mythic+ which has Raider.IO etc on top of using DBM/WeakAuras.

[Miles064]

I don't think it's as clear cut as designing fights with or without addons in mind. It's a grey area and while I do think it's a consideration for higher level gameplay, especially when you consider WeakAuras also, you can play all of these fights on any difficulty without addons. There's a general community expectation to use these addons in a lot of content though, especially if you don't play in a raiding guild/team (static in FFXIV). This expectation also spreads into Mythic+ which has Raider.IO etc on top of using DBM/WeakAuras.

I agree once again. Weak Auras is so strong that im not sure how I feel about it tbh. It is nice for letting you know about procs that don't have visuals(fire mage hardcast pyroblast proc) but seems to have a lot it can do outside of it. I know basic dbm functions are part of the game know but I dont think I have ever not just picked it up when I get dominoes(hotbar addon) and Details(parser). Community expectations are fair I feel. Raider.IO only came to be because blizz put all the risk of keys on the party leader.

I will say i've never had a raid team require I have weakauras or dbm outright nor have I ever seen mythic+ pugs require them either. I'll admit is possible but feels no different than parties requiring "X spec only" or "link achieve" or anything else.

[Coatl]

Dumbs down any mechanics center around being aware of what the boss is doing.

If people need it to have a chance let them have it. It is not a good substitute for actually knowing what you're doing. Plus cacbot usually doesn't update for new raids for awhile, so those who are dependent on it tend to not be progging week 1.

[Shialan]

Dumbs down any mechanics center around being aware of what the boss is doing.

You mean as in Zodiark EX, where people just need to follow around that one person with a marker?

[HyoMinPark]

Dumbs down any mechanics center around being aware of what the boss is doing.

I don’t use Cactbot and never would because the constant ping/pong I hear in streams would annoy me to death—but I know some people who installed it purely for one mechanic that is universally hated by raiders of all caliber: Nael Quotes in UCoB. The new quotes are better, but the mechanic as a whole is annoying to try and deal with when dealing with it normally. Reading chat bubbles versus chat box makes very little difference; and I’m forever grateful to anyone who calls it out since the mechanics have quite some unforgiving snapshots at time.

That said, I don’t think having an automated callout really matters all that much. You still have to know how to react to said callout. Be it by a bot or a person in voice-chat.