They need to find a way to detect XIV Alexander and ban people

[Mikey_R]

Speaking honestly, I feel like SE is fighting a losing battle against so-called 'third-party tools', and should probably change the ToS to accommodate their usage in a way that both allows them to crack down on the blatant cheaters, whilst also mitigating the issue of vexatious report/harassment campaigns directed against prominent players over something as insignificant as a UI tool. It also lets SE regulate the usage of these tools on their terms, instead of the Wild West situation we have now, and maybe even work towards the possibility of adding certain tools as base-game features for all players.

First, how would adding the use of 'some' mods allow SE to regulate their usage? Currently, nothing is allowed and SE cannot regulate it. It isn't even a simple case of SE going, yes, yes, no, yes to various mods as that would require someone, or most likely, a team, to vet each one and any updates that might come after, to make sure nothing was added after. However, it doesn't stop people from using XIV launcher, which makes the whole thing irrelevant anyway.

Second, people would still try and push the bounds of what is allowed. You say all UI mods are fine, ok, so, I come along with a mod that dynamically changes the look of the map to show you where safe spots are. Technically, I am just altering the UI, which is allowed but it is obviously against the spirit of fair play. This is just an obvious example I quickly thought up, however, you can be sure that people will try and ride that line as close as possible.

And lastly, they have already said that they will be looking at popular mods and consider adding them into the game. The first obvious example is the large cooldown timers on actions. There are some things that will obviously not be added, like a parser, but who knows what they have planned.

[EnigmaticDodo]

man, if you do a disingenuous meme about it, it's almost like people aren't cheating at the game lol

- You're able to triple weave flawlessly
- The game has things 'drawn on' to guide you that are otherwise invisible or completely remove thought from 'complex' mechanics (such as in TEA with color swapping and misc other mechs)
- The game will announce mechanics before they exist, either through text to speech or in a bar counting down to the millisecond when they'll go off.

The last point messes with fights such as;
Titan Savage
Diamond Weapon EX
Ultimate Coil of Bahamut

but whatever... meme hehe elexenderfourteen -fart-


(this is complaining about more than xivalex, but its a part of the problem)

[Absimiliard]

man, if you do a disingenuous meme about it, it's almost like people aren't cheating at the game lol

- You're able to triple weave flawlessly
- The game has things 'drawn on' to guide you that are otherwise invisible or completely remove thought from 'complex' mechanics (such as in TEA with color swapping and misc other mechs)
- The game will announce mechanics before they exist, either through text to speech or in a bar counting down to the millisecond when they'll go off.

The last point messes with fights such as;
Titan Savage
Diamond Weapon EX
Ultimate Coil of Bahamut

but whatever... meme hehe elexenderfourteen -fart-


(this is complaining about more than xivalex, but its a part of the problem)

You uh... do realize anything made possible by the weave-improving plugin all this started over can also be done just by having really good ping, right?

Having a mechanic announced to you kinda means nothing because they always come in the same order anyway. It isn't like most other MMOs, where a lot of the bosses are a case of "random BS go" with a handful of scripted mechanics on the side. All of this game's fights are almost completely scripted. The only real randomizations are who gets targeted with what and what edge of the arena will the continuously reused knockback or dash mechanic be executed from, and even then the former is often constrained by role. While I do feel people relying on warning tools are cheapening their own experience a bit by taking the braindead route, they're not actively cheating or in any way harming another player's experience.

The tools that outright tell you where to go and what to do instead of just warning you are a lot less common, and the vast majority of the miniscule number of people using them are probably so bad at the game no amount of tools will adequately assist them in the first place. Even should these tools prove effective in getting those players clears, the only ones being impacted are the ones making use of them. Other players won't be any the wiser, and their own experiences remain unchanged.

With Yoshi-P's recent commentary on the subject, the entire plugin debate is at this point basically just a bunch of people who are unable or unwilling to use them ineffectually crying about people that can and will despite the fact that it in no way hampers their own gameplay experience. It comes off as being almost comically entitled and most definitely envious.

[LianaThorne]

Gonna regurgitate what I usually say in these threads:

MODS do not equal PLUGINS. Just stating that outright.

Plugins are what actually affect the games code (like the Cactpot & WT odds helper, the housing one that makes floating easier, the portable orchestrion that lets you change the BGM of the game, etc.) while mods are client side (cannot be seen by other players, at least that was until a certain plugin was born and now that option is available to those who want it) and only change things like clothing or character models through the client side files of the game, not the games actual code or servers.

Mods do not give any sort of advantage in game outside of cosmetic/visual and is not cheating in the traditional sense of the word. Unless giving a Viera a hat buffs their combat in some way that I'm not aware of now.

Is it unfair to the console community? Sure. However that is a fault of consoles themselves and is also not fair to punish those who are capable of using mods for the fault of design/hardware choices by Sony and Microsoft. Unless consoles reach a point where they are physically capable of modding (which they are if we look at Bethesda for example, though I don't know of any other examples) to the point it becomes a norm, this is going to be an argument that doesn't really go anywhere.

The devs have also stated, to the point of being a broken record, that they will not be putting anti-cheat into the game or any real way to detect mods or plugins. There are multitudes of reasons behind this ranging from issues implementing anti-cheat in certain parts of the world to the amount of effort that would have to go into keeping up with every single new mod or plugin that comes out. Our modding community is HUGE, I think some really underestimate how large it actually is or don't want to believe it. There are hundreds of thousands of players that engage in this side of the game, all you need to do is check a popular website to see the amount of downloads some mods have. Square would be shooting themselves in the foot if they tried to remove them at this point, it's too engrained into the social aspect of the game. They also most likely know that as they literally do not want to talk about this topic anymore when people bring it up in LL's. They've stated their position, they need to be left alone about it now.

Those who use plugins in official competitions (like World First or ranked pvp) should absolutely be punished but I heavily disagree in having them banned as a whole. What people do on their own time is their business and I don't see why it would affect anyone unless it personally affects your game and ability to play (like someone lagging out your game to force you to do worse in pvp, for example).

[solimiano]

snip

Unfortunately the game is cross platform, ao all mods plugins etc need to available to all platforms... If this would happen it would become official and no longer be a mod or a plugin.

Good luck having them remove cross platform support.
Anyway all your points and mine are moot because any plugin/mod whatsoever is a breach of tos, considered cheating and a banable offence.
I will not risk my 9 year account, but everyone is free to do as they please.

May you be blessed by the power of the bikini

[Ivtrix]

Unfortunately the game is cross platform, ao all mods plugins etc need to available to all platforms... If this would happen it would become official and no longer be a mod or a plugin.

Good luck having them remove cross platform support.
Anyway all your points and mine are moot because any plugin/mod whatsoever is a breach of tos, considered cheating and a banable offence.
I will not risk my 9 year account, but everyone is free to do as they please.

May you be blessed by the power of the bikini

Sure it’s a breach of tos, but SE knows they will lose a majority of their pc players overnight should they actually choose to enforce

[solimiano]

And it's probably why they said from the beginning they don't want to install software or put in any checks to see if you got the mods/plugins. But it's also true they banned a bunch of players for streaming with said plugins.
But this doesn't matter, my opinion doesn't matter, neither does any of your opinions, we all signed a contract and agreed that we will pay X amount of currency to square-enix to use their software, any breach on part means they can remove our access; and that is the only thing that matters at the end of day.
I have been reading the thread so far and none of our opinions matter because we signed a contract, and like in any other situation of our lives we can face the consequences for breaking said contract. It doesn't matter if it's fair or not fair, if it works or doesn't work, it it makes it better or worse. We signed a contract, if you break the rules you face the penalty.

[Velvet_Lunarfang]

Some plugins actually make this game better. Like being able to place furniture on a wooden loft. Like come on Yoshi why is a wooden loft count as a table? I swear sometimes I really believe they don't think when they add some things. Also in housing the walls have a no place barrier which doesn't make sense. Why does my couch have to stick 10 feet away from the wall lmao.

[Absimiliard]

Non-invasive third-party tools have always been a grey area. There's long been an unspoken "don't ask, don't tell" policy surrounding them. The development team has always known they're there, and in some cases the quality-of-life features provided by certain plugins have even been adapted into the game proper. In any case, they've made their intentions clear - there will be no hunting down and banning of plugin users. If people are stupid enough to go public with their usage thereof, that's one thing. Using them quietly and privately is another matter entirely.

To note: a probable major contributing factor to the game's lack of anti-cheat software is Japanese law. Japan has laws that forbid both the modification of software (i.e. the use of mods, for our purposes in this thread, although such laws obviously have no bearing on players beyond Japan's borders) and sampling of data from said software. It also has laws that forbid the use of invasive software such as would be required to determine whether or not a player is utilizing third-party tools or modifying game files.

[ScarletL1995]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU < - This is Yoshi literally comparing the most popular 3rd party program to a calculator or Excel spreadsheet. He also describes in great detail his feelings on the matter and why!

His stance will NEVER change on Third Party tools but not because the program is bad as he admitted it doesn't violate any rules really, but because of the issues of how people will use them like HARASSMENT or taking away the casual play that they want people to be able to enjoy.

He says he won't watch your computer, he says that he doesn't really care about the program. He describes what bothers him and why the rules are there!

So how about instead of being whiny about something, actually take the time to listen and find out what the REAL PROBLEMS ARE that you are committing right now with your complaining!

Because lets be honest, most of you who are whining about this are committing the actual problems Yoshi has on this issue because you are OVERLY JUDGEMENT of people who play and literally the REAL PROBLEM with the gaming community.

Edited ... to be clear, I am not saying that I do or do not use them. What I am saying is that I don't like people who are complaining about other people because they sit on their high horse looking down on the rest of the world. Basically, the stuck up people who think they are better then everyone else. Just wanted to be clear that I am not saying that you should or should not use 3rd party tools. What I am saying is mind your own damn business. If SE wants to make an issue of this, they will and those people will be dealt with. It is for them to decide, not you, how how they want to manage their game. If you don't like it, create your own game to manage!

Let people play the way they want to play and stop being DAMN BABIES about it! The fact that you are complaining about it is literally AGAINST THE TOS! Violation numbers 3.2 and 3.6! If you want to know that they are, here is a copy and paste straight from their TOS (https://support.na.square-enix.com/r...2&tag=users_en)

3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers.

3.6 Any Illegal Activities. You may not conduct any illegal activities whatsoever in connection with the Game. This includes every illegal activity not specifically highlighted above, including without limitation gambling, defamation, harassment, and fraud.

You are disrupting and harassing people with your complaining so you can stop now!

Disclaimer: I am not here to promote or complain about the 3rd party tools. I could care less if someone uses them or not because at the end of the day it is none of my damn business. So don't take this post as a means to say that I use them because I never said anything like that. I just don't like people who are stuck up snobs who are judgemental about other people. Who the heck are you to look down on anyone because you think you are better then they are?

If Yoshi had a problem with these issues, he would go out of his way to make sure that those tools could not be used (encryption of data and such). If you have a problem with the way they are managing the game, then instead of coming here and whining about it, how about you create your own game with your own rules that you can enforce as you see fit! Because people like you that complain and whine are the true problems and the real reason of my post! You disrupt games and ruin experiences for people because you are upset and want to force your issues on others!

So basically this reply is about pointing out the REAL problems in the game, people who disrupt the game for the rest of the community because they want people to play the way they do. Sorry, but I am against people like you who think their way is the only way!