Dark Knight Megathread

[Shurrikhan]

That's awfully presumptions of you to say.

Fair enough. I forgot that the forum accounts are separate from your general Square Enix account and you might therefore have started more than the above two months ago, and with one-shots (or bust-and-auto killers) having yet to get mentioned I did not check Lodestone first (though, looking at it now, I assume also that this is your alt?).

It's a fundamental difference but it yields identical results, since the cure that happens on HoC is instant, meaning it also instantly increases max eHP as part of the action. There is no functional difference.

That's a matter of context, not functionality. A 100,000-damage attack and 4,000 damage attack are "the same" if their target only has 4k HP. That doesn't mean their isn't a difference ready to go the moment you hit an enemy with 4,001 HP.

I cannot begin to tell you how many times I've caught an auto after a tankbuster in difficult content...

If there's not enough time to do anything between the two hits, they will act as one hit until you have something that can be woven between them (e.g., Catharsis, since it's not going to wait for human reaction times... though it still has a little delay of its own, sadly; I've certainly been AAed off before even it can go off).

No, not seem, seen, as in visually watching the healthbar jump.

Right. Sorry, my eyes have trouble catching small words; somehow I passed over the "be" both read-throughs.

This literally exists in Warrior. I don't think drain tanks necessarily belong in FFXIV. In terms of design, I like GNB healing wise because it's calculated and rhythmic healing, Aurora when damage is coming and a charge is available, HoC between cooldowns unless a tankbuster or mechanic requiring it is expected. Not draining, but a general regeneration. It's satisfying and rewarding, something that DRK is not.

Milage may vary. I find GNB more fun than Warrior in raids in every way but its defensive and healing setup, though I certainly enjoyed WAR's healing more when it better rewarded banking (in that its short-CD had a lower healing floor and slightly higher ST ceiling, all on a shorter duration).

...The only thing in DRK's kit, defensively, worth note to me are TBN, Oblation (kind of), and Abyssal Drain in AoE when my healer's... not great. And yet, for me, TBN and Oblation themselves faintly, faintly put it over GNB for me.

A good read though.

Sorry it got so ramble-y. I just did think it tapped a cool area, actual interaction design pending.

[Ryaduera]

-snip-

I have actually never enjoyed Warrior, even in 3.0 when it was... well, slightly less broken than it is now. I do realize that whichever tank you enjoy for whatever reason is going to be entirely opinion. I actually don't main GNB for that reason, but rather because I like noisy but calculated classes. As GNB everything has to fit within your 60s burst window and 30s window inbetween. It's fun and requires good awareness of both your abilities and the encounter. This is, of course, opinion, as similar things could be said about DRK ( why I want to love it, actually) because it is also noisy, it's just far less calculated and more of a "BURST WINDOW GO" kind of playstyle.DRK just feels left out. It doesn't have heals, it still suffers from the magic resistance gimmick (the only reason I dislike Dark Missionary is because it's literally Heart of Light, but you get it later). If they'd just fix Dark Mind I entirely believe it's defensive abilities would be fine, it just needs some love in its offensive abilities (not in damage, it is top right now) to make it overall more fun and satisfying and giving it a heal off of its offensive abilities would be great, something like a modernized Sole Survivor.

Also never forget they took Dark Dance away, reworked it to not be evasion but just damage reduction, kept the parry, renamed it Camouflage, and gave it to a different tank entirely.

[Shurrikhan]

I have actually never enjoyed Warrior, even in 3.0 when it was... well, slightly less broken than it is now. I do realize that whichever tank you enjoy for whatever reason is going to be entirely opinion. I actually don't main GNB for that reason, but rather because I like noisy but calculated classes. As GNB everything has to fit within your 60s burst window and 30s window inbetween.

At present, what with Double Down and whatnot, the only thing I'm really enjoying about GNB's lulls is that it helps to remember which are full lulls and which are Bloodfest lulls, and then either burn (apart from ensuring you'll have enough for GF combo when it comes up) or bank over the lull accordingly. (Because of that, I don't particularly hate Double Down, contrary to a lot of the flak it's been getting, as it doesn't really change what I'd be doing anyways.) The rest just feels so rigidly on-rails that it's not my cup of tea compared to, say, HW DRK, or any of various other MMOs' tanks. The 30s CDs, meanwhile, are just more click-on-CD filler to me. (For much the same reason, I never cared about Circle of Scorn outside its handy mob-grabbing while sprinting through dungeons, and cared even less about Spirit's Within once its HP interaction was removed.)

For me, DRK and WAR, rotationally, are on the opposite extreme; they're diarrhetic. Outside of banking for raid buffs, and not overcapping, nothing seems to matter. You just throw shit out there. (Of course, GNB is the same in that you just don't want to overcap and do want to maximize window, but at least there's enough desync between BF and NM to make it feel like there are distinct phases among and between bursts, whereas Enhanced Infuriate is a constant but negligible mechanic and, well, DRK has nothing that falls away from the 60s timers.)

I think that's the first thing that'd need to change about DRK: it needs something to look forward to over its lulls, and (imo) ideally that something shouldn't just be a simple hit-on-refresh (and not just because it'd be a combo-breaking GCD, either, as that just screws over downtime and most SkS tiers). After that, it ought to have more reason for varying the order of attacks in its bursts -- whatever reason that may be -- and more integral use of its resources, especially over its lulls.

Also never forget they took Dark Dance away, reworked it to not be evasion but just damage reduction, kept the parry, renamed it Camouflage, and gave it to a different tank entirely.

The saddest thing is that if ever I imagine some parry/dodge based counter-offensive mechanic, already I'll assume it should belong to GNB.