Monk Positionals 6.0

[jerome15]

Previous PB spammed two skills to expend 6 stacks. It was brainless. PB can now utilize all skills within a given form, and awareness has to be placed on which ones you do use due to the Nadi, and the skills locked behind them. We can also use PB every 40s, instead of 90s. How this can be seen as taking away from MNK is beyond my comprehension.

Losing Shoulder Tackle as an oGCD is welcomed. I won't pretend to not be aware of how awkward most MNKs felt using this skill between GCDs. Calling it a "loss" now is moot. Tornado Kick was reallocated, and we now have Riddle of Wind to weave every 90s, which I believe will just "feel good' to use in between GCDs.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe SSS has been adjusted so it functions outside the GCD, but will place its recast on all skills meaning you can use it immediately after a GCD. If this is the case, it is also an improvement.

For the nadi, 1 out of 3 will actually be spamming those same 2 skills, boot/dk except you only get 3 charges now. the other 2 of 3 nadi are just you doing your combo like normal. we lost 3 ogcd's with shoulder tackle, elixir field and tornado kick. they did they put tk and elixir field to the blitz system, but that's just a different gcd to press. riddle of wind actually looks pretty ridiculous since it's just a button you press and you do more autos, doesn't change anything except the dps number. add into that we lost 4 out of 6 positionals. sounds like we lost more than we gained

and as for sss: " Upon execution, the recast timer for this action will be applied to all other weaponskills and magic actions." doesn't sound like it can be used directly after a gcd

[Gemina]

For the nadi, 1 out of 3 will actually be spamming those same 2 skills, boot/dk except you only get 3 charges now. the other 2 of 3 nadi are just you doing your combo like normal. we lost 3 ogcd's with shoulder tackle, elixir field and tornado kick. they did they put tk and elixir field to the blitz system, but that's just a different gcd to press. riddle of wind actually looks pretty ridiculous since it's just a button you press and you do more autos, doesn't change anything except the dps number. add into that we lost 4 out of 6 positionals. sounds like we lost more than we gained

and as for sss: " Upon execution, the recast timer for this action will be applied to all other weaponskills and magic actions." doesn't sound like it can be used directly after a gcd

You can reword it, but it still translates to more than two skills now being applicable in PBs window. Even if you want to look at it as 6 stacks, that is under the previous PB with a 90s CD; you now get two charges of PB within 80s, and each of those have three stacks, so you're not even losing that.

MNK oGCDs seems to have shifted into non-direct damage abilities. RoE, RoW, Thunderclap all will need to be weaved when their need arises and cause no damage, but benefit the MNK in different ways. I really like this, as just about any oGCD that does cause damage just felt tacked on due to MNKs shear amount of speed. Losing positionals is not the same as losing skills. Again, I understand why this grieves long time MNK mains, but I feel they should try this new system to see if they feel they are actually still needed to feel that distinctive MNK flow. In addition, and this is purely QoL, but I strongly disliked not being able to see some of MNKs beautiful animations due to their oGCD usage whenever I was min/maxing.

I think you're right about SSS, but what made me question it is, "Does not share a recast timer with any other skill." Based off of that, it sounds like it can be used right after another GCD with the tradeoff of placing all your skills on its recast timer. This will be the first thing I try upon logging on without question. It is burning my brain.

[ssunny2008]

You can reword it, but it still translates to more than two skills now being applicable in PBs window. Even if you want to look at it as 6 stacks, that is under the previous PB with a 90s CD; you now get two charges of PB within 80s, and each of those have three charges, so you're not even losing that.

Just because we spam PB more often doesn´t mean that something is advanced or that we get put more under pressure. You´ll just spam the same skills over and over again as you did before, BUT without positionals and skills which break the flow you had before.


Overall we´ve less skills, less to do, a static job in exchange for nothing but a worse "Midare-system" we already have on SAM.

feel that distinctive MNK flow.

There is no flow without positionals / only 2 positional skills you barely use. The flow CAME with hitting ALL positionals. A static job... one where it doesn´t matter where you´re as long as you´re in boss range... has no flow. Just look at tanks or RDPS. Nothing is more boring to play especially since SHB. 123, 123, 123, 123, 123, 123, 123, 44444, 123, 123, 123.... meanwhile being anywhere. What an insane experience!!! Atleast BRD has to care for DoT proccs, oh wait.....

In addition, and this is purely QoL, but I strongly disliked not being able to see some of MNKs beautiful animations due to their oGCD usage whenever I was min/maxing.

And there it is... again it´s just about "animations". It might be wrong, but given to logs, you don´t seem to play MNK much, you don´t play savage and you definately don´t max your stuff. Again... playing a class for its animations has nothing to do with its gameplay.

Yeah and like it or not the people who you (quite condescendingly) describe make up the vast majority of the player base and paying subs, if you were a game dev would you make changes to keep the top 10% of hardcore players happy or the other 90% casuals as you call them. Ever thing maybe you are the problem and this isn't the game for you

SE doesn´t cater the 90% here. They cater only some guys, which think they OWN the game. Some selfish players, who can´t accept, that not every class might be made for them. And those guys will drop MNK faster than you can look at it anyway. They jump from class to class to go through the daily-rotation and thats it. On top there is no reason in any game to homogenize classes and to kill unique aspects as SE did with every expansion. They "braindead" this game caused by wrong decisions and lazyness.

I´m sure half of the glory majority don´t even touch MNK for the reason, because it´s a melee class. NOT because old GL or positionals. There is only a handful of guys in the end coming up like "This bad, that bad, all bad, please change in my favor!". Those guys can´t think further like i could throw a stone. They can´t even see the difference between classes and what made MNK unique. And they can´t accept, that MNK has been the only one positional-heavy class with its playerbase.

It´s disgusting that such players getting catered again and again! WE ALL PAY OUR SUB, but hey... lets slap directly into the face of years old MNK mains AGAIN! And it´s not MNK mains only... it has been MCH, Tanks, healer, MNK, MNK again and now SMN, Healer, oh and MNK again! And don´t forget any other dumbdowns happening for 0 reasons.

Mains have always beend fine with their jobs for whatever reason meanwhile the majority 100% don´t even care much how a job is played since they play the game for completely different reason than its gameplay. Or do you wanna tell me chilling in Limsa or some Nightclubs inclusive half-naked characters need special class abilities? Or that the majority take care about rotation and stuff in dungeons or bodzja / eureka?!
Players who don´t even try savage, which are a lot, can´t tell me, that they´re here for the gameplay. The real gameplay experience starts there... not in braindead dungeons. And playing a class because of its animations or just because it´s a "girlie-class" (WHM, DNC, SMN) has very little to do with the GAMEPLAY too.

It's not only this either there are other issues too ( particularly with our opener ), I think that MNK is going to be revisited in a later patch.

There is something called "Hotfix" and they should give us ALL positionals back, not just the Opo-Opo-form.

[Gemina]

Just because we spam PB more often doesn´t mean that something is advanced or that we get put more under pressure. You´ll just spam the same skills over and over again as you did before, BUT without positionals and skills which might break the flow you had before.

I could argue that adding positional requirements to two skills you spam over six stacks isn't advanced at all. Actually, I already said it was brainless. Celestial Revolution was even introduced to this Blitz system as a consolation for screwing up and getting 2:1 ratio of beast chakra, which tells me you can mess this up.

Overall we´ve less skills, less to do, a static job in exchange for nothing but a worse "Midare-system" we already have on SAM.

Ok, you are entitled to your opinion. However, I would say that Masterful Blitz actually expands on ASTs seal system as they have more similar elements to their mechanics than SAMs sen acquisition. But I digress.

There is no flow without positionals / only 2 positional skills you barely use. The flow CAME with hitting ALL positionals. A static job... one where it doesn´t matter where you´re as long as you´re in boss range... has no flow. Just look at tanks or RDPS. Nothing is more boring to play especially since SHB. 123, 123, 123, 123, 123, 123, 123, 44444, 123, 123, 123.... meanwhile being anywhere. What an insane experience!!! Atleast BRD has to care for DoT proccs, oh wait.....

You seem to be under the impression that I am in favor of the removal of positional requirements. I mean who are you really barking at? I firmly stated that I can understand how this grieves career MNK mains losing 4 out of the six. That is very impactful without question. All I have stated is that perhaps it was necessary due to the Blitz system, and advised that we at least give it try to see how the MNK flow feels in comparison to before. Seriously WTF is your problem?

And there it is... again it´s just about "animations". It might be wrong, but given to logs, you don´t seem to play MNK much, you don´t play savage and you definately don´t max your stuff. Again... playing a class for its animations has nothing to do with its gameplay.

Again, what the hell? I stated that I am a novice MNK. I just picked it up in ShB and I love the job, and I am looking forward to these changes. Yet you go on the offensive with some savage log BS? What are you actually trying to achieve? Taking your grief out on others, and trying to get them to follow suite. "Eff your optimism" is that it? Get off of your high horse. I mentioned the animations along with it just being QoL. It's not a big deal and understand that such things shouldn't get in the way if you are min/maxing. Or am I wrong about that too? Better speak up loud. Make sure we all hear you.

SE doesn´t cater the 90% here. They cater only some guys, which think they OWN the game.

I am actually curious to who actually think they own the game.

[ssunny2008]

Snip

I know it´s SE´s fault to follow the wrong feedback. But they just follow claims like yours. Ppl who barely play the job show up like "It needs to change... there are 19 other jobs to play, but please change it... i love MNK animations so much!".
It´s just wrong and you can claim like me or another MNK main own the game too ofc, but there is a huge gap between:

- being able to swap jobs easily and ignore MNK caused by positionals

or

- stay with the ONLY positional heavy class for years and call it my main.

Being the only positional heavy class has been a unique aspect of the game. As i said before it´s comparable to BLM, which is unique in itself too and have the same low playerbase. But it doesn´t get changed because ppl are like "I don´t play it, but it´s so perfect designed!" meanwhile MNK is like "I don´t play it, but it´s bad designed!".... like wtf?!

If you really think i´ve a problem with you, then you´re wrong. It just gives me a headache to read stuff like "Job will be busy as before, job looks so cool now, i´m so excited!", when we lost pretty much everything for "just another gauge with animations". (Same as the new SMN)

[Mikey_R]

but I strongly disliked not being able to see some of MNKs beautiful animations due to their oGCD usage whenever I was min/maxing.

Animation clipping is seen in every single physical job, this is not an issue unique to Monk. If you play other physical jobs, do you complain about clipping animations there as well?

---

On a slight tangent, I wanted to see how often we actually hit a positional between PBs.

With PB being 40 seconds, that will equate to 20 GCDs. 4 of them are going towards Blitz, with 1 potentially being used every 1/3 Blitz.

That leaves 16 GCDs for the rest of the rotation, since positionals are every 3, this leaves ~5-6 positional GCDs every 40 seconds.

Take Dragoon, starting from True Thrust and going for 40 seconds, that is 16 GCDs, which is a full rotation + Chaos Thrust combo + one last Raiden Thrust. Count them, 8 GCDs, even if it happened to line up with Full Thrust first, it only drops to 7 GCDs.

So, at best, Monk is looking at 30% positional requirements in the 40 seconds and at worst, Dragoon is looking at 50%, however, Dragoon also has plenty of oGCDs to manage.

If we just double the amount of positionals, so back to 4/6, it goes to 10-12 GCDs. At best this puts it over 60%. If everything still had a positional, it would be 95% positional uptime, dropping from 100% just because of the Blitz.

Hopefully that can put into perspective just how much the lack of positionals has affected Monk, especially for players, like myself, who was originally drawn to the job BECAUSE of the high amount of positionals.

[Kolsykol]

but I strongly disliked not being able to see some of MNKs beautiful animations

I actually agree with this a lot and I've talked about this before too.

I think that certain animations should override others, for example Tornado Kick should've been overriding your standard combos.
The attack should still happen and you should see the number, but the full animation of Tornado Kick should play out imo.

With that said it doesn't change my views on the gameplay, but I do have issues with animations being really really cool but then not seeing them much not just on MNK but others too.
The new big SAM hitter for example ( cba to look the name up ), in the Job trailer it looks really cool love the sheating animation and all that after the hit.
But in gameplay you don't really see the whole thing, it feels like such a waste imo.
FFXIV has such incredible animations overall but a lot of them just get clipped.