Astrologian changes 6.0

[Liam_Harper]

2000 potency is significant, more than you get from food buffs or a potion. We're still nitpicking because it's only a few percent in an otherwise solid healing kit, but it's unnecessary all the same. RNG is fine on something like DNC because you have enough procs to average it out, but you get so few Minor Arcana per fight it could go either way.

What surprises me is how the old-card enthusiasts are suddenly delighted at the introduction of a dps card and how it adds "flavor" when dps cards are the very thing they've been complaining about the entire expansion. Suggestions of making it pure utility have been shot down. I could understand Astrodyne because you play the seal alignment mini-game, but what is it about a bland +250 potency that excites everyone so much? Genuinely curious.

[Recon1o6]

2000 potency is significant, more than you get from food buffs or a potion. We're still nitpicking because it's only a few percent in an otherwise solid healing kit, but it's unnecessary all the same. RNG is fine on something like DNC because you have enough procs to average it out, but you get so few Minor Arcana per fight it could go either way.

What surprises me is how the old-card enthusiasts are suddenly delighted at the introduction of a dps card and how it adds "flavor" when dps cards are the very thing they've been complaining about the entire expansion. Suggestions of making it pure utility have been shot down. I could understand Astrodyne because you play the seal alignment mini-game, but what is it about a bland +250 potency that excites everyone so much? Genuinely curious.

As someone who vastly prefers the old card system I'll clarify for you it comes from 2 major points. Its tied to how the job feels different and more like old astro which folks that just want their big dps numbers miss completely.

1. Its a little bit of synergy between buffing and the dual role of healing/dpsing and one you can adjust to as well as you use it when you like. The lord card is an attack and not a buff, and for the job thats starved the most of attack options, thats a big improvement.
2. Its a step in the right direction to restoring card variety. Instead of having 1 card whose effect is unnoticable without a parser, we now have 3 cards, 2 of which feel they have an impact because you can see the difference they make.

For any damage buff to feel like it makes a difference without a parser, it needs to be either long enough so using it shaves at least 1 gcd off if all gcds are the same
or
it needs to make a big enough change in the numbers you do on the flyover text so that you can see that improvement.

6% is not enough to distinguish your standard attack from a lucky series of the baseline variance. You can always see when you do an attack or direct heal though

[Saefinn]

2000 potency is significant, more than you get from food buffs or a potion. We're still nitpicking because it's only a few percent in an otherwise solid healing kit, but it's unnecessary all the same. RNG is fine on something like DNC because you have enough procs to average it out, but you get so few Minor Arcana per fight it could go either way.

What surprises me is how the old-card enthusiasts are suddenly delighted at the introduction of a dps card and how it adds "flavor" when dps cards are the very thing they've been complaining about the entire expansion. Suggestions of making it pure utility have been shot down. I could understand Astrodyne because you play the seal alignment mini-game, but what is it about a bland +250 potency that excites everyone so much? Genuinely curious.

I think it depends on the old enthusiasts you're talking about. I come from the standpoint of favouring variety. It's just an improvement on what we've got because it means fewer of your skills are variations of The Balance and have another function. In 5.0 your seals only affected the potency of an AoE version of The Balance (because that's all Divination is) and you have to use The Balance matching different seal to build up to it and if you can't use that seal? Use a version of The Balance that's slightly better but with no seal.

With Astrodyne you get:
- MP Resto
- Spell cast time and recast time reduction
- Damage and healing potency boosts

Not only do you get a 5% heal & damage bookst, but you also get to cast faster, your recasts are shorter so you can use abilities sooner. If you time everything well I expect it could mean getting 12 seconds knocked off of Macrocosmos' recast timer.

The MP resto isn't anything to get too excited about because MP management is super easy, but there's still situations where you might benefit from an MP regen (like raise heavy runs).

This is because the effects of the seals are iterative, so it's not a choice between the 3 effects, you get all 3 effects if you win at the card game. It feels more meaningful than what it is now.

To me, it's a step in the right direction...I know I keep using that phrase, but that's how I feel about AST and SGE, I don't think they're significant enough to excite me, but mean I'll enjoy things more than I do now.

[Sqwall]

I think it depends on the old enthusiasts you're talking about. I come from the standpoint of favouring variety. It's just an improvement on what we've got because it means fewer of your skills are variations of The Balance and have another function. In 5.0 your seals only affected the potency of an AoE version of The Balance (because that's all Divination is) and you have to use The Balance matching different seal to build up to it and if you can't use that seal? Use a version of The Balance that's slightly better but with no seal.

With Astrodyne you get:
- MP Resto
- Spell cast time and recast time reduction
- Damage and healing potency boosts

Not only do you get a 5% heal & damage bookst, but you also get to cast faster, your recasts are shorter so you can use abilities sooner. If you time everything well I expect it could mean getting 12 seconds knocked off of Macrocosmos' recast timer.

The MP resto isn't anything to get too excited about because MP management is super easy, but there's still situations where you might benefit from an MP regen (like raise heavy runs).

This is because the effects of the seals are iterative, so it's not a choice between the 3 effects, you get all 3 effects if you win at the card game. It feels more meaningful than what it is now.

To me, it's a step in the right direction...I know I keep using that phrase, but that's how I feel about AST and SGE, I don't think they're significant enough to excite me, but mean I'll enjoy things more than I do now.

I suppose that sums it up. Astro has always had this "luck of the draw" feel to it. 5.0 took that out of cards and put it into seals/party make up. RNG is still there. But nowhere near what it was in Stromblood. Astro in Stormblood was a blast to play.

With the changes to minor arcana (still giving you the "luck of the draw feel", the seals being tied to astrodyne and offering no punishment for bad RNG, divination being a straight party buff not tied to RNG, play and crown play not affecting each others cooldowns.

You're right. This is a good direction for ASTRO. Divination, Astrodyne with 3 seals, a 6% ewer on myself(greed), got lucky with a Lord draw (crown that), throw combust, Fall Malefic/gravity II few times, hit stellar explosion, followed up with macro cosmos. Boss or mob literally bombarded by fortune telling and astrology.

I wonder how Lady/Lord scales? Magic Damage? Can it crit?

[MintnHoney]

2000 potency is significant, more than you get from food buffs or a potion. We're still nitpicking because it's only a few percent in an otherwise solid healing kit, but it's unnecessary all the same. RNG is fine on something like DNC because you have enough procs to average it out, but you get so few Minor Arcana per fight it could go either way.

In a single target event, assuming a certain level of competency or capability, you're either DPS neutral or better (Lady is a free Helios, meaning you can cast another Fall Malefic even if you need to kiss everyone's stupid booboos, and Lord is an extra attack that you can either weave in for extra DPS or provides you the opportunity to hardcast an (aspected) helios or other similarly timed spell (which, sorry, does happen once in a while)). If the issue is that "we need to worry about planning and consistency for the highest echelons of play" then, for the highest echelons of play, you plan for what you do have that is consistent (literally everything else) and use the bonuses to counteract the surprises that I'm 100% sure are going to happen and you can't plan for(the stupid booboos you need to kiss, like when the Dragoon believes just a bit too hard).

Meanwhile, for low to mid level players, getting Lord or Lady is going to be a boon one way or the other. Lady will let the Sylphies top off that 3 HP that hasn't yet been healed by the 3 other regens we have, and it gives younger healers a potential extra crutch to stand on when they realize they forgot to press the Recover MP button and have to fight to recover while the tank begins another wall-to-wall pull. Lord, meanwhile, gives an opportunity to younger healers to deal damage while they panic over their party's blood splatters, maybe even teaching the newest healers that it's OK to deal damage.
It will also force an attack on those who refuse to attack, technically forcing even the Sylphies to actually hit something if they want to get their hands on that sweet, sweet Lady healing, potentially converting them to the darkside of green dps when they realize how delicious that DPS can be.
Take some heart in that, at least.

What surprises me is how the old-card enthusiasts are suddenly delighted at the introduction of a dps card and how it adds "flavor" when dps cards are the very thing they've been complaining about the entire expansion. Suggestions of making it pure utility have been shot down.

The way I see it, this iteration of Lord and Lady doesn't seem to be designed specifically for the same group of people who our Shadowbringer cards were designed for, and you're just going to have to be ok with that like we "old-card enthusiasts" have to be ok with the "consistent" deck of Balance.
The good news is that, for those who really can't handle 1 Lisa Simpson amongst the orchestra of other buttons to press, there are other healing jobs to play. Or at least there's Sage, per Yoshi-P.

but what is it about a bland +250 potency that excites everyone so much? Genuinely curious.

I guess "2000 potency is significant."

[inhaledcorn]

Meanwhile, for low to mid level players...

Their opinion on the matter is insignificant. They can't even maintain a casting uptime, let alone be bothered to hit these situational buttons most of the time. What the developers have done is try to squish the skill floor and skill ceiling in a terrible way. ShB cards existed the way that they did because the developers actually looked at how high-end players were playing AST and removed the pretense of the cards being anything but damage. For some reason, they looked at the low population and thought it was due to the lack of RNG because people here said they wanted it to "enhance the flavor of the job".

You can spread dog shit on a sandwich and call it full of flavor, but that doesn't make it good.

This isn't going to help its player population. Even if more people do end up playing it, the quality of players are going to be terrible because the good players have moved onto something more competent. Even SCH is looking better than this garbage, and that's saying something.

[MintnHoney]

Their opinion on the matter is insignificant.

Not to Squeen, they're not. Frankly, not to me, either, and I'd say you're foolish for not thinking of them at all when they're quite literally the reason we have the problematically-low skill floor in the first place.

You can spread dog shit on a sandwich and call it full of flavor, but that doesn't make it good.

You're right, which is why I don't appreciate you giving me the Balance Paté and acting like it was a gift from god to my kit. It really wasn't, and it's going over there with the Stella chips and the Cleric Stance smoothie.

This isn't going to help its player population. Even if more people do end up playing it, the quality of players are going to be terrible because the good players have moved onto something more competent. Even SCH is looking better than this garbage, and that's saying something.

We're already on that rollercoaster with AST due to Shadowbringers, particularly the low potency of the job at the start of the expansion (where things were certainly doable, but very difficult; and look what happened! Despite your favored AST deck, everyone jumped ship because of the difficulty, even some self-proclaimed high level players). If you're talking about the population of the healer role, 1 ability on a single job is not going to tip the player population on any potentially extreme level towards healers, and I'd argue that anyone jumping ship because of 1 ability was likely unable to provide the nosebleed-high level of play everyone's freaking out about anyway.

Lastly, I refer back to:

for those who really can't handle 1 Lisa Simpson amongst the orchestra of other buttons to press, there are other healing jobs to play. Or at least there's Sage, per Yoshi-P.

It's not my favorite answer, because it's not an actual resolution, but considering the history of the development team to make changes to the healer population mid-expansion, or even at the beginning of the expansion, at best, we'll see Sleeve Draw return, or we'll see a potency boost to reduce the soreness of all the butthurt, so this is the best answer I can give to you for now. Play something else, and let them see that you don't like it. Send feedback, preferably in-game or anywhere other than these forums (since they ignore us here).

But as for me, this is fine, and a step back into the direction that I've missed for AST.

[Absurdity]

What surprises me is how the old-card enthusiasts are suddenly delighted at the introduction of a dps card and how it adds "flavor" when dps cards are the very thing they've been complaining about the entire expansion. Suggestions of making it pure utility have been shot down.

I honestly have no idea either.

Your cards are still just the same flavour of low budget Balance, low budget Balance and low budget Balance. The only "exception" being Minor Arcana which is simply a coin flip between getting 250 potency and getting screwed over by the game, so you essentially get 4 flavours of damage (either indirectly or directly) and a heal...marvelous innovation.

I also think Astrodyne doesn't add any of that mystical "variety" either, all it does is give you the same 1-3 buffs depending on whether or not rng gave you the correct flavour of Balance 3 times, with even less control over it than the old Balance fishing had.

I was one of the people that wanted the old card system back but that exactly the issue for me, this is NOT the old card system, not even remotely. What I wanted was for them to remove the dps from cards entirely and simply make them a utility tool so the rng factor has less impact while still giving you that "variety".

Instead we still have the 3 flavours of low budget balance, no utility cards and an extra layer of rng that's tied to dps...

[Brandedblade]

I honestly have no idea either.

Your cards are still just the same flavour of low budget Balance, low budget Balance and low budget Balance. The only "exception" being Minor Arcana which is simply a coin flip between getting 250 potency and getting screwed over by the game, so you essentially get 4 flavours of damage (either indirectly or directly) and a heal...marvelous innovation.

I also think Astrodyne doesn't add any of that mystical "variety" either, all it does is give you the same 1-3 buffs depending on whether or not rng gave you the correct flavour of Balance 3 times, with even less control over it than the old Balance fishing had.

I was one of the people that wanted the old card system back but that exactly the issue for me, this is NOT the old card system, not even remotely. What I wanted was for them to remove the dps from cards entirely and simply make them a utility tool so the rng factor has less impact while still giving you that "variety".

Instead we still have the 3 flavours of low budget balance, no utility cards and an extra layer of rng that's tied to dps...

It's an attempt at compromise is what it is. The intention being that an AST can still have some sort of rng system they can play and react around without said rng hurting their ability to buff their allies. This is far better then 1 balance, 1 slightly worse balance, and 4 extremely niche and rng dependent effects.

[Sqwall]

It's an attempt at compromise is what it is. The intention being that an AST can still have some sort of rng system they can play and react around without said rng hurting their ability to buff their allies. This is far better then 1 balance, 1 slightly worse balance, and 4 extremely niche and rng dependent effects.

I think this is the best compromise, while unexpected. TBH I didn't think AST would get changed even this much. Happy accident.

But I would also like to point out that it was literally the high end meta that decided what AST should be using. So if anything...the current 6 balance cards is the fault of high end players that only wanted to boost their own numbers because DPS is king in this game.

SE literally gave us EXACTLY what we were doing for years on AST. Royal Spire/spread balance. Why do we act surprised when they literally give us 6 cards that...do the same thing.... The RNG is x10 better when I all was EXPECTED to have was AOE/Balance with a time dilation on the BLM or SAM, with a celestial opposition follow up for the whole party. Back when AST could increase the buff timer to nearly 1 min on a single party member. A good AST was disgustingly OP when the RNG was good.

The current RNG is reduced SOOO much. And with the revert back to a little more RNG....I'm actually happy with this change. I'll never understand those that quite LITERALLY think minor arcana destroyed this job....well it doesn't. The fact that it doesn't benefit the party must REALLY bother them....to that I say...huh, that must suck. O well.