Thread: Astrologian changes 6.0

Originally Posted by rewd

No, it didn't hurt my feelings as much as it hurt your credibility in a serious discussion, which I believe to be a bigger issue.

I'll have to repeat myself, but hopefully you'll notice how weak and self-centered your arguments are. I'll use quotes to make it easier:


You have two huge problems:
- You speak through hyperboles. Your ability to play properly is not entirely RNG dependent, it's barely tied to RNG. I'd dare to say it's not tied to RNG at all.
- You use the wrong words. You are coming from a minmaxing perspective, so "optimally" is the right word to use here. This raises an important question: should minmaxers, a minority within a minority, hold job design hostage?


You are accusing to be condescending, dismissive and all that because of something you pointed out yourself:


To make it worse, you are acting like you care about what is beneficial to every player:

Let's see how much you care about other players, shall we?

You'll excuse my paraphrase: "I care so much about every player that I'll call a job objectively flawed, dismiss some opinions as objectively flawed and, to top it off, I'll ask developers to fix the job to my liking so every player is happy! By the way, by "every player" I mean "me". Everyone wins! Yay!"


The horror! That would be fine in a game that lets you play every job on the same character, but FFXIV doesn't work like that. Imagine how awesome that would be: you can play every job on the same character and different jobs offer different gameplay styles based on what the individual likes. It sounds beautiful, damn...

Alright, you’re literally just gaslighting me and providing no points of discussion at hand which is the AST changes. There’s no further reason to waste my time responding to you. Good day!

Originally Posted by Sqwall

I honestly don't understand all this focus on Minor Arcana. It's DPS is so low that I doubt it will even make a Marginal difference in prog or raiding. Maybe ultimate...but I doubt it.

Obviously it has become a large point of discussion, and it's not even that good. It's literally a button you use every 60 sec. It's 100% job flavor.

Lord vs. DPS skills

-Fall malefic is STILL stronger
-Gravity II is STILL stronger
-Combust is still pretty strong (didn't see the potency changes)

Lady vs. Heal skills
-literally a non-point as every skill AST has is very powerful healing

When people talk about Min-Max this makes me cringe, because SOOOO much of the player base doesn't do this. There are those that do, great. But I think those that Min-Max and try to squeeze so much out the job to preform at a high level only want skills that benefit them at a high level.


This is unrealistic to think the raiders shape the game, and we should owe them something. No that's just silly. Anyone can see minor arcana is next to useless in a raid, because it is. And to have those that Min-Max say it needs changed because it's to RNG for prog/raiding is just dumb. AST has LITERALLY a million other buttons to press that do the job WAY better. So I don't understand all the focus on it. It's FREE minor damage, and FREE minor healing. This RNG is sooooo insignificant to the game, and to remove/replace or change it would just cause imbalance.

Potency is not job flavor.
Let’s take an 8 minute fight for example. With the Lord being 250 potency, that’s 2000 potency gained or lost based on RNG. That’s only on a single target. In dungeons, this scales exponentially due to the ability having no aoe falloff. AST could have huuuge aoe burst with proper RNG, which is very useful in casual content.

As for the potencies shown in the media tour(which are subject to change) the Lord has 250 potency.
Fall Malefic had the same potency at 250
Gravity had a potency of 130 to all enemies.
Combust has a potency of 550 when it ticks for all 30 seconds.

Because Lord is an ability, it can be weaved in between casts, so it is not only potency even with Malefic, it’s a straight potency gain.

The only time I can see Lady being useful is when you can use it to save a fall malefic to heal the party instead of casting a gcd heal. More often then not though, I expect people to be throwing out lady cards to use minor arcana again.

This does not apply to just min/maxers or raiders. This applies to everyone from dungeons or normal trials or even solo content.

As for adjusting the RNG, it’s actually quite simple to change it by simply adjusting the potencies.

2000 potency is not a lot for a whole fight though.
+ as you said Lady was probably designed with this usage in mind: being able to use it instead of a GCD heal. Which means that in theory it is DPS neutral.

So, yeah, in dungeons it is certainly a DPS loss due to RNG. On boss fights, maybe not.
It's again one of those things that depend on fight design. If lilybell is any indication, I am hoping there will be more raid wide damages.

Originally Posted by Garnix

2000 potency is not a lot for a whole fight though.
+ as you said Lady was probably designed with this usage in mind: being able to use it instead of a GCD heal. Which means that in theory it is DPS neutral.

So, yeah, in dungeons it is certainly a DPS loss due to RNG. On boss fights, maybe not.
It's again one of those things that depend on fight design. If lilybell is any indication, I am hoping there will be more raid wide damages.

Even when it's "not a lot", that 2000 damage can literally make or break a run. I've seen 1% wipes. Losing out on any damage feels awful when you know that you might end up missing the requirements of the fight.


And, if it "doesn't mean anything", then why even have the button? If it means so little in the grand scheme of things, then the button is completely unnecessary. It's just a poorly designed skill all around.

If it was maybe an Assize where they both did damage and healing, just one card did focused on one aspect more, then that would be one thing. But, it's not.

Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

Even when it's "not a lot", that 2000 damage can literally make or break a run. I've seen 1% wipes. Losing out on any damage feels awful when you know that you might end up missing the requirements of the fight.


And, if it "doesn't mean anything", then why even have the button? If it means so little in the grand scheme of things, then the button is completely unnecessary. It's just a poorly designed skill all around.

If it was maybe an Assize where they both did damage and healing, just one card did focused on one aspect more, then that would be one thing. But, it's not.

Well yeah you could also blame bad luck on crits for the 1% wipe...or somebody's death or somebody underperforming, or the Dancer not being lucky with its procs etc etc. There is enough random aspects to the DPS overall that those 2000 do not mean much at all.

And based on your logic many skills could be removed.
It's totally fine to have some 'flavor skills'.

Originally Posted by EthanMoonkin

Potency is not job flavor.
Let’s take an 8 minute fight for example. With the Lord being 250 potency, that’s 2000 potency gained or lost based on RNG. That’s only on a single target. In dungeons, this scales exponentially due to the ability having no aoe falloff. AST could have huuuge aoe burst with proper RNG, which is very useful in casual content.

As for the potencies shown in the media tour(which are subject to change) the Lord has 250 potency.
Fall Malefic had the same potency at 250
Gravity had a potency of 130 to all enemies.
Combust has a potency of 550 when it ticks for all 30 seconds.

Because Lord is an ability, it can be weaved in between casts, so it is not only potency even with Malefic, it’s a straight potency gain.

The only time I can see Lady being useful is when you can use it to save a fall malefic to heal the party instead of casting a gcd heal. More often then not though, I expect people to be throwing out lady cards to use minor arcana again.

This does not apply to just min/maxers or raiders. This applies to everyone from dungeons or normal trials or even solo content.

As for adjusting the RNG, it’s actually quite simple to change it by simply adjusting the potencies.

Also almost all fights are longer then 8 minutes so this number even gets worse and don’t forget minor lines up with every raid buff window. So it’s not only 250 all the time. In summary you can lose around 5-6 k potency depending on the raid comp and if you ever draw king. That’s a lot if you think about it.

I like that Lord & Lady have changed this way, though Lady I see getting less use. The main changes I like about AST are that its cards are moving away from "everything is a variation of The Balance" because even Minor Arcana was somehow a variation of The Balance. But in terms of balance issues that may come with RNG, I'm less bothered but I know if the margin RNG creates is too big then I can see why it'd be an issue, but I guess I don't mind the trade off so much if it means i can do something other than "The Balance" with them.

It really only clicked with me yesterday that we're losing Sleeve Draw...even if it is stated literally in the first line of the thread...I'm smart I swear. But it's something I've missed off of my evaluation of AST's changes. I feel like we'd want that back, because it helps avoid too many wasted cards especially as we can no longer spend them on Minor Arcana. I feel like it's going to be missed, because I am not sure Redraw and 2 charges of Draw will mitigated its loss.

Yeah, the Sleeve Draw thing is super strange. It was 'fine' in Stormblood and IMO, it was only really Divination that pushed it into a strange super APM burst phase where ASTS were even using Light Speed to try and deal with Sleeve Draw quickly enough to get Divination out with raid buffs.

SE caused an issue with it and rather than correct the course, they just deleted it.

At least it can keep Aero III company I guess

Originally Posted by Sebazy

Yeah, the Sleeve Draw thing is super strange. It was 'fine' in Stormblood and IMO, it was only really Divination that pushed it into a strange super APM burst phase where ASTS were even using Light Speed to try and deal with Sleeve Draw quickly enough to get Divination out with raid buffs.

SE caused an issue with it and rather than correct the course, they just deleted it.

At least it can keep Aero III company I guess

It is especially odd because I thought the last fix to Sleeve Draw solved that issue and felt better to use.

I don't mind the Draw/Redraw changes, because they're more in line with what I feel is better...but that was a feeling where Sleeve Draw was still in our kit. I don't like the 3 charges because they don't feel right in terms of flow and you feel like you're fishing more.