Astrologian changes 6.0

**Sqwall** · 10-13-2021 11:58 PM

So sleeve draw is removed. And the job is leaning more into RNG with card draws? ok.

Card buffs are basically the same...select correct class with correct card. simple.

Seals aren't that important anymore...mainly in how the new level 50 skill works....

Astrodyne is now the selfish buff for astro only?! Giving MP regen on self, haste buff, and damage up buff. So seal seeking isn't that important when trying to buff the party DPS as this only effects the astro themselves.

Divination is now a flat 6% damage up buff every 2 min. No seals needed...and can now be dropped in openers ASAP. Thanks !

Minor Arcana is back to the old way of using it on a 60 sec cooldown. Hit minor arcana...and hit crown play. Simple! AoE damage or AoE heal....WITH NO DROP OFF. Now astros can hold cards when needed....and the arcana is SEPERATE from your normal Draw. Drops those lord's and ladies! *this makes me happy that minor arcana has returned to it's roots*

Gravity II.... looks awesome and no damage drop off. THANKS!

Celestial intersection now has a trait for TWO charges....I love this skill and it has always had me wishing I could use it on myself when in danger...but it's usually on CD. Now I can. THANKS!

Neutral Sect....still ast's beast mode button.

Macrocosmos! WOW...this is a powerful skill damage....250 potency with damage fall off to all enemies in range. AND grants a buff to party that compiles 50% of damage taken to party for a heal that restores the compiled damage...OVER 15 SECS!? This feels OP, but time will tell.

All in all....AST is going to feel pretty complete for me. RNG is still there...but it's not gating you with your divination for party buffs. The party/raid still get their damage up buffs we grant, but it will feel nice to not have to fish for seals. Draw and Redraw will take some getting used to, but astro is used to it. Minor arcana/crown play will feel great to use every 60 sec. AST dps seems like it go even smoother to dish it out, while also being able to heal effectively.

I'm glad they decided to rework some of AST's pain points. I'm happy with all of this.

**Mimilu** · 10-14-2021 12:20 AM

My only gripe with the AST changes is that Minor Arcana has a separate Play button. I much prefer what we have now where we just use the same button. We can really even say it will help with min-maxing before pulls because everyone will want to pull a Lord card.

**Sqwall** · 10-14-2021 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by Mimilu

My only gripe with the AST changes is that Minor Arcana has a separate Play button. I much prefer what we have now where we just use the same button. We can really even say it will help with min-maxing before pulls because everyone will want to pull a Lord card.

I agree the minor arcana could just be changed to crown play when you possess a lord/lady. Still I'm curious what undraw is still doing there.

The new draw/redraw still has me scratching my head as you only get 1 redraw per card drawn. Does this mean that redraw is only available when a card is drawn and is unavailable when a card is played?

Draw has 2 charges, but you effectively get a redraw for every charge.
6.0...Draw...wrong seal...redraw...wrong seal...draw...wrong seal...redraw (is that right?) We basically lost 1 redraw?
As opposed to 5.0 Draw....wrong seal...redraw...wrong seal...redraw...wrong seal...redraw.

Undraw still around...does it grant a charge of Draw back to us when we place a card back in the deck? Which would be the missing 3rd redraw.

Don't really understand the reasoning behind this as draw and redraw feel ok to use now. Maybe this is a QoL....?

**inhaledcorn** · 10-14-2021 12:54 AM

The changes to Lord/Lady and the new Astrodyne are awful.

You now have a strong chance to lose out on damage over something you can't control. Y'all wanted RNG, and now you have it in the worst possible ways.

"Oh, but Divination is consistent!"

Whoopty-doo. I could deal with losing out on some damage in my opener because my Divination was pretty consistent everywhere else. Now? Well, who knows if I'm getting my personal damage buff or if I'm just getting that MP regen that's really not even necessary, even with the mp economy nerf due to the reduction on mp recovery from Draw and the loss of Sleeve Draw.

StB Lord/Lady sucked because the Lord was always good while the Lady just sat there because I had no need for it. Essential Dignity was on a 45s cooldown and healed for faaar more than Lady ever could. What do we need an AoE heal for when we have Earthly Star and Celestial Opposition, both of which are on 60s cooldown timers? On top of that, you're still losing out on damage because of a thing you cannot control.

The ShB card system didn't need to be messed with. If they wanted to make Divination its own cooldown, fine, but Astrodyne is a terrible replacement, and ShB Minor Arcana was a necessity for leftover card seals. This new system is just not well thought-out.

**Saefinn** · 10-14-2021 01:44 AM

I'm looking at AST's changes and thinking that they're a step in the right direction.

Minor Arcana

It means we go from 8 Cards that are basically "The Balance" to 6. And it can result in a potential DPS move, how it works is not ideal because you might get a heal and have to hold onto it, but there's a chance I'd need to heal within the spec of 60 seconds, so it might be okay. But I can see Lady of Crowns getting wasted.

Since the last changes to AST I am using Minor Arcana less.

Astrodyne + Divination

With current Divination, I honestly don't feel the difference between getting 1 seals or 3 seals, but I know there is one. But the seals never felt meaningful. AST cards in 5.0 feel like. "I got The Balance, let's reroll for The Balance, oh I can't use The Balance so I'll use the slightly better The Balance that's seal free, I'll roll again and look it's the Balance I wanted and now I have 3 seals so I can now do an AoE version of The Balance".

We still get 6 versions of The Balance and an AoE version of The Balance. But at least in how I use those six cards, I can end up getting up to 3 beneficial effects for me so I get to feel the difference. NGL, the MP bonus is 'eh' because it's rare I run out of MP but then it's the "fail" scenario, so my incentive is to get the other two. So you get a shorter cast time and recast and then a your own damage & healing increases. I prefer that. Whilst if I compare to 4.0's cards, I could still feel sad because there's things I'd have liked to have kept, but if I compared it to 5.0 then this is an improvement. I was a SCH main prior to 5.0, so I come at AST from the perspective of somebody who used to love SCH rather than as somebody who loved AST.

Exaltation + 2 Celestial Intersection Charges + Noct Sect Loss

We knew Noct Sect was going anyway and I cannot help but feel Neutral Sect was the first step to that. And honestly I don't mind and Exaltation adds another shield-ish thing. And I am happy that AST actually gets to keep a decent number of shield related stuff. It does seem odd with the pure/shield heal divide and that is something that I am worried about, because AST is still quite shieldy and SGE is still quite healy and I am worried that content won't push healers enough for that distinction to matter. That said, I come from a Scholar background and if it's AST that I end up continuing to play, I think I will enjoy keeping neutral sect, having 2 Celestial Intersection Charges and the damage reduction from Exaltation.

And it's all this kind of stuff that sets it a part from White Mage, so it's not White Mage with stars, which was one of my worries...but one of my worries that did come true is that WHM is still 'eh'. Whilst I don't main it, my co-healers do and I know one of them mostly quit WHM in ShB for MCH because they stopped having any fun and AST is not their thing.

Macrocosmos

When I look at AST's & SGE's capstones and then SCH's and then WHM's, I feel bad. They all offer good healing benefits but AST and SGE get damage attached to theirs and look cool. WHM's still looks cool, but SCH's is...very...eh.
The animation for Macrocosmos is definitely cool looking and I like its concept, in that people take damage to heal themselves. But to me, it's another button to break up the monotony.

I was kinda thinking SGE would be the step in the right direction to me enjoying a healer and I still think it may be a positive step and enjoyable. But AST's changes might win me over more.

That is not to say I don't think there will still be problems, but those problems I think are general healer complaints, but AST may have made extra steps to improve how it feels in its downtime versus 5.0 and I picked it in 5.0 because it was the only one that I could break up my downtime with and be able to get some enjoyment. And some of the flow issues got fixed and we're losing stacks of Redraw, which I think will actually feel better, I hate shuffling cards over and over. But on current AST I am doing it less than I used to since the Sleeve Draw changes.

There may be mechanical issues I have not considered, like what changing Minor Arcana will mean if we get 2 unique seals and the card we don't want, whether we take the reduced benefit. And of course what this means in terms of balance.

**Sqwall** · 10-14-2021 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

The changes to Lord/Lady and the new Astrodyne are awful.

You now have a strong chance to lose out on damage over something you can't control. Y'all wanted RNG, and now you have it in the worst possible ways.

"Oh, but Divination is consistent!"

Whoopty-doo. I could deal with losing out on some damage in my opener because my Divination was pretty consistent everywhere else. Now? Well, who knows if I'm getting my personal damage buff or if I'm just getting that MP regen that's really not even necessary, even with the mp economy nerf due to the reduction on mp recovery from Draw and the loss of Sleeve Draw.

Respectfully Disagree. You're looking at this from a strictly DPS point of view. Is DPS the main focus of a healer...it can be, but it's not. If someone that is good at healing and DPSing, great! But is DPS required of healers....absolutely not. The RNG aspect is contained only to the AST now, and doesn't punish you for poor RNG to buff the party damage. So in that regard...nothing changed...the party STILL get's the divination buff, but now you don't have to fish for seals to get in that opener. This is good.

To you're point about RNG is worse...I still disagree. The only change that I can see is that we have one less redraw. And the no longer awkward sleeve draw cooldown. Sleeve draw was great for the opener, but it was utterly useless otherwise. One guaranteed seal to complete every OTHER divination. I never had that much trouble filling out my seals even without sleeve draw. With the long cooldown of divination we currently have, I ALWAYS have my seals completed before Div is off CD, with minor arcana filler or the seal will replace my first seal. I might have the once in a while poor RNG and spend 3 redraws, but I still have plenty of time to get in another Draw/redraw before Div is up.

Minor Arcana is so low on the totem pole in 5.0 that I only EVER use it when my seals are complete and it acts as filler while I wait for Div to come up so I don't break my seals, unless like I said...I can successfully push a seal. So this basically went to a FREE DPS card or a FREE HEAL card. I really don't see the downside here. Will people fish for a lord pre-pull...maybe. Will raid parties wait til a AST get's a Lord...doubt it (unless that's required in a particular static) Is it THAT big of a difference....no....because you can't UNDRAW a lord/lady. Deal with it and move on kind of RNG...seems harmless when I think about it. The lord pre-pull for a small DPS 250 potency hit does not replace a 15s 8% damage up buff on a party member...not even by a long shot. It's just a flat free dps or free heal.

**GrimGale** · 10-14-2021 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Sqwall

Respectfully Disagree. You're looking at this from a strictly DPS point of view. Is DPS the main focus of a healer...it can be, but it's not. If someone that is good at healing and DPSing, great! But is DPS required of healers....absolutely not. The RNG aspect is contained only to the AST now, and doesn't punish you for poor RNG to buff the party damage. So in that regard...nothing changed...the party STILL get's the divination buff, but now you don't have to fish for seals to get in that opener. This is good.

To you're point about RNG is worse...I still disagree. The only change that I can see is that we have one less redraw. And the no longer awkward sleeve draw cooldown. Sleeve draw was great for the opener, but it was utterly useless otherwise. One guaranteed seal to complete every OTHER divination. I never had that much trouble filling out my seals even without sleeve draw. With the long cooldown of divination we currently have, I ALWAYS have my seals completed before Div is off CD, with minor arcana filler or the seal will replace my first seal. I might have the once in a while poor RNG and spend 3 redraws, but I still have plenty of time to get in another Draw/redraw before Div is up.

Minor Arcana is so low on the totem pole in 5.0 that I only EVER use it when my seals are complete and it acts as filler while I wait for Div to come up so I don't break my seals, unless like I said...I can successfully push a seal. So this basically went to a FREE DPS card or a FREE HEAL card. I really don't see the downside here. Will people fish for a lord pre-pull...maybe. Will raid parties wait til a AST get's a Lord...doubt it (unless that's required in a particular static) Is it THAT big of a difference....no....because you can't UNDRAW a lord/lady. Deal with it and move on kind of RNG...seems harmless when I think about it. The lord pre-pull for a small DPS 250 potency hit does not replace a 15s 8% damage up buff on a party member...not even by a long shot. It's just a flat free dps or free heal.

The issue is that free healing has often very little value when put up against free damage, especially when getting one means the loss of the other. They could have mitigated this by having both Lord and Lady deal damage and heal, like a mini assize, then add a distinct effect to one or the other to differentiate them. But when damage and heal come together and are exclusive, healing will ALWAYS lose due to being situational, while damage will ALWAYS win due to being always useful. (Except maybe in very strange situations where you have to have a healing and you've exhausted all other options, but honestly considering how many healing abilities we have that might never be the case.)

**Sqwall** · 10-14-2021 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by GrimGale

The issue is that free healing has often very little value when put up against free damage, especially when getting one means the loss of the other. They could have mitigated this by having both Lord and Lady deal damage and heal, like a mini assize, then add a distinct effect to one or the other to differentiate them. But when damage and heal come together and are exclusive, healing will ALWAYS lose due to being situational, while damage will ALWAYS win due to being always useful. (Except maybe in very strange situations where you have to have a healing and you've exhausted all other options, but honestly considering how many healing abilities we have that might never be the case.)

Possibly. I look at it from a point of view if I use a Lady card, then I can DPS right away. If I use a Lord Card I can follow up with healing. Lord and Lady to me are MP savers, and help you either way. I don't know. I ultimately think the change is good, and sometimes simple execution of a simple skill at it's core are what's required. It's not going to make or break in clutch moments. BUT it does offer choice, and choice offers variety. Something Healers are in need of desperately. AST has that variety that I want in a healer. WHM is just a glare mage, and I found WHM incredibly boring to play. AST keeps me on my toes and makes me think. SCH never played it as it just didn't interest me. SGE? Perhaps....but I hate shield healing (which is why I never picked up SCH).

With the changes AST has, I agree that this is a great direction for AST. It is sort of a soft return to form, and still keeps it complexity. I always advocate for QoL fixes, adjustments. While replacing poor designs with better design.

This is probably the closest AST is going to get to "as good as it's going to get".

**GrimGale** · 10-14-2021 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by Sqwall

BUT it does offer choice, and choice offers variety.

But that was my point. It really doesn't. You will almost invariably always want Lord of Crowns as it is always useful. While Lady of Crowns is only useful when there is some significant healing to do. Especially since Lord of Crowns IS a dps gain. It adds to Astrologian's dps, its an oGCD you can weave into your casts for a 250 potency gain.

Indeed, I agree it is not much. And the RNG definitely offsets the value for both. Maybe it's not valuable enough to make a dent, but it is still more useful than healing. Healing doesn't make the fight finish faster. Healing can be completely wasted and add nothing to a team if it doesn't save anyone and for that AST has a lot of much more consistent tools.

It's a choice between always free useful damage (which can be augmented in Divination or Astrodyne windows, increasing its value.) and free very situational healing. This isn't really choice.

**Sqwall** · 10-14-2021 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

"Oh, but Divination is consistent!"

Whoopty-doo. I could deal with losing out on some damage in my opener because my Divination was pretty consistent everywhere else. Now? Well, who knows if I'm getting my personal damage buff or if I'm just getting that MP regen that's really not even necessary, even with the mp economy nerf due to the reduction on mp recovery from Draw and the loss of Sleeve Draw.

You're miffed about literally 1 seal? Hell 2 different seals?

The current RNG is 100%/33.3%/100% RNG for the opener. I hardly call that RNG. At most it's 50/50 for the second Draw.

If you can't muster up 2 different seals with the new astro changes...maybe you should turn your astro.....card???? LOL couldn't help myself

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Astrologian changes 6.0