"gogogo" might make me quit this game.

[Reinha]

People who have memorized every nuance and intricacy tend to forget how complex some things are to newcomers, and don't have any patience or sympathy for those who aren't as confident in their abilities as they are.

I agree that there are complex things to learn but pulling 2 or more packs of enemies is not one of them. One pack: hit AoE buttons, use a cooldown and avoid telegraphed attacks. Two packs: hit AoE buttons, use a cooldown and avoid telegraphed attacks. It's exactly the same.

When the healer is jumping up and down ahead of the tank, Rescuing the tank or facepulling more, that's a sign that they want the tank to stop dragging their feet and press the damn W button which is the only difference between small and big pulls.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

Xaruko never claimed he wanted to pull one add at a time while rp walking through the instance. He even cleared up later that he obviously tries to keep up a good pace. The effective difference between a good pace and breakneck speed is not big or it would simply mean you can’t clear a dungeon in 15-20 min (depending on cinematics) without resorting to rushing, and my own experiences have shown that that is perfectly possible without doing w2w, sprint on cd.

It’s not as black and white as it seems to be here on the forums. It’s not either you race through, or you take 40 min, and therefore you have to rush through. It’s amusing to me in a way, having played EQ a long time ago where you’d group up for an hour or 8 in an instance to get some xp. These days two minutes extra is a big deal. I’m afraid, to me, those two minutes are rather relative and I’ll not judge a group on that. Or myself.

Thank you, yes, this is the case. I enjoy a good pace too, with healers DPSing and moving from group to group without delay. Sometimes it's just over the top to the point I feel like we are in a timed mythic+ dungeon from WoW, as Im left wonderinf if my sprint is bugged and not as good as everyone elses. I just don't understand how that is fun for anyone.

[SamsaraTrickstar]

I agree that there are complex things to learn but pulling 2 or more packs of enemies is not one of them. One pack: hit AoE buttons, use a cooldown and avoid telegraphed attacks. Two packs: hit AoE buttons, use a cooldown and avoid telegraphed attacks. It's exactly the same.

When the healer is jumping up and down ahead of the tank, Rescuing the tank or facepulling more, that's a sign that they want the tank to stop dragging their feet and press the damn W button which is the only difference between small and big pulls.

lets see, lets take the last 3 dungeons. all of them have at last one boss that you need to know thing for. if you dont most likely you get killed. but when people rush there no time to tell the new player what to do and what no, then its a wipe or and over all longer run as one of the dps is dead half of the time. but telling them what to do take 1 min max.

[Aron73]

It depends. In the dungeon "The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak" when someone enters the area of the endboss the cutscene is ~3 minutes long if you make the MSQ here.

Cheers

Oh yea your so right there I do remember that quest

[Wilford111]

Sometimes it's just over the top to the point I feel like we are in a timed mythic+ dungeon from WoW, as Im left wonderinf if my sprint is bugged and not as good as everyone elses. I just don't understand how that is fun for anyone.

There's a lot to do in this game, and the faster you do things the more you can do in your day. To add on to that, people have done these dungeons dozens of times, so the only fun left they can reasonably get out of it is optimizing it and doing it faster and faster.

It's mainly an issue with how the game is structured. People do content they wouldn't normally do in order to get their rewards and get higher and higher numbers. Until someone creates a revolutionary new mmo design, this is basically how it'll be no matter what game you play.

You can always stick to doing dungeons with friends or PF, but when it comes to DF roulettes you've basically gotta put up with this endgame mentality.

Not justifying it, not saying you're right or wrong for feeling this way, but this is the reality.

[Saraide]

Funny when people describe normal pulls as "speedrunning" when speedrunning is 1 tank and 3 dps (or just 4 blue mages).

[Endariel]

lets see, lets take the last 3 dungeons. all of them have at last one boss that you need to know thing for. if you dont most likely you get killed. but when people rush there no time to tell the new player what to do and what no, then its a wipe or and over all longer run as one of the dps is dead half of the time. but telling them what to do take 1 min max.

All of the attacks are telegraphed and basically reskined versions of previous mechanics met through the game. There are maybe 1-2 mechanics are a tad weird at first but at most it will lead to an invuln stack.
Again, it's not darliada or 8-men duties where the are one shot mechanics. It's just dungeons, easiest pve content in the game

[SamsaraTrickstar]

All of the attacks are telegraphed and basically reskined versions of previous mechanics met through the game. There are maybe 1-2 mechanics are a tad weird at first but at most it will lead to an invuln stack.
Again, it's not darliada or 8-men duties where the are one shot mechanics. It's just dungeons, easiest pve content in the game

the boss you need to hide in a hole from its full map aoe? as a dps it kills you if you don't know to do it. then there the lightning big cat, as a dps not knowing what to do will get you killed.

[Rowde]

Xaruko never claimed he wanted to pull one add at a time while rp walking through the instance. He even cleared up later that he obviously tries to keep up a good pace. The effective difference between a good pace and breakneck speed is not big or it would simply mean you can’t clear a dungeon in 15-20 min (depending on cinematics) without resorting to rushing, and my own experiences have shown that that is perfectly possible without doing w2w, sprint on cd.

A vast majority of content in this game isn't designed this way. "Big Pulling" as a concept practically doesn't exist anymore, as if one were to pull "Wall to Wall" the game usually doesn't allow pulling more than 2-3 groups of mobs (usually somewhere between 7-9 total enemies) before impeding progress with some sort of gate. Thus, in most of the dungeons the only way to pull smaller is to do single [pack] pulls.

There are outliers where it's still possible to do big pulls, or what I sometimes seen referred to as "Full Pull", that allow players to pull everything, or practically everything from one boss fight to the next (and sometimes even into the boss fight). Usually there are only 1 or 2 big pull setups in dungeon content per expansion, and while there are definitely more situations in ARR content where the traditional idea of big pulling is even possible, the aspect of designing content with 2-3 packs before gating progress is also prevalent (particularly in the level 50 dungeons).

if you lvl a dps then dungeons are the last thing you want to do for the more fast way. adn for the love of god not doing wall to wall may add 1 min to the run. -_-

Seen others already break this down more thoroughly, but still want to echo that single [pack] pulls add way more than 1 min to the total clear time. It's going to end up being 10-15 min extra (or more).

It’s not as black and white as it seems to be here on the forums. It’s not either you race through, or you take 40 min, and therefore you have to rush through. It’s amusing to me in a way, having played EQ a long time ago where you’d group up for an hour or 8 in an instance to get some xp. These days two minutes extra is a big deal. I’m afraid, to me, those two minutes are rather relative and I’ll not judge a group on that. Or myself.

Similar content does exist in FFXIV though, where players will often stay in instances to "lockout" (timer goes to 0, or so close to 0 that a clear is no longer feasible). Exploration content like Eureka and Bozja/Zadnor, and PotD/HoH, are the most similar to what you are describing, but even EX Trials, Savage Raids, Ultimates to a degree. In a single night of learning/prog you might engage with the same piece of content for multiple lockouts. This is not dungeon content though, nor do I think it should be, as that would make the entire game agonizingly slow.

Personal example... My BLU crew has been slowly working towards unlocking the Morbol Mount (clear 6 specific 8-player raids with all BLU, sync'd, echo silenced). Believe it or not, I have more than 7 friends, so Step 1 was finding out who was interested in trying. Step 2, since 3 ppl interested didn't even have BLU unlocked at first, was getting everyone to max level BLU and helping them get "critical" spells they'd need for the actual fights. Step 3 then would be actually attempting the raids. Working around real life schedules, we usually only gather once or twice a week for 2-3 lockouts. We're currently prog'ing the last raid we need to clear to unlock the mount... looking back through chat histories, this entire process began back in April 2021. So this is something we've been working towards for over 6 months now (including prep time of leveling and getting spells. Also tbf, we've had to skip some weeks here and there because of real life situations like ppl feeling sick, family events, etc).

[Ronduwil]

Many of us are not though. We're running it for the 100th time and don't feel like taking it slow because one person isn't able to keep up when the remaining two also want a fast run.

Then don't queue for leveling roulette.

Now there are some exceptions to this. In low level dungeons or new players, I'm more forgiving. Case in point, I didn't do as big a pull as a could after wiping in Dusk Vigil last night with a baby healer.

So it took a wipe before you exercised a little consideration for the new healer. That's consistent with my experience in the roulette, and that was the entire point I was trying to make. Thanks.

if not early. You've literally reached more than half way to max level. If you still don't understand how to dodge orange circles, use CDs and have a basic understanding of your job kit, regardless of rule, you have no business queuing for 60+ content. Go back to the earlier dungeons and/or read your tooltips.

You're drastically oversimplifying. I'm talking about oddball mechanics like the Blizzards in Snowcloak that players sometimes stand in while fighting. What do orange circles have to do with the tank going down too quickly for the healer to keep up? The healer can dodge orange circles all day, and the tank is still going to go down if he's soaking them all while also pulling multiple packs. Also, there is no "under 60" option in the leveling roulette once you've hit 60. You just get whatever someone else needs. That almost guarantees that you're going to have at least one new player in any given 60+ instance via the leveling roulette.

I'm not going to pull three mobs at a time in Holminster Switch cause you're too lazy to actually practice your chosen job.

You're not going to see many new players in Holminster Switch, either, because you can do it via a Trust (which is what I did my first time through).

This notion big pulls are some sort of boogeyman is silly. Mobs do not hurt you whatsoever. Even in Leveling dungeons. Two sets of mobs aren't going to overwhelm even newer players nor is a DPS pulling ahead all that big a deal.

That may be so in your endgame gear. That's not true of a brand new tank who hasn't even realized that they can go to the splendors vendor to purchase a full level-appropriate set every ten levels starting at 50. I've seen too many paper tanks in the roulette to agree with your statement. Once I've blown my cooldowns and exhausted my lilies as a WHM, I can only spam Cure II so quickly.