Smn Rework Suggestions After LL

[Roda]

So...
Distracting from the argument over who deserves to be happy with the game....

Is it just me, or does the flow from phase to phase feel... off? Like the progression is backwards?

Big ELDER PRIMAL Bahamut is just a cooldown that we use and go through that phase to unlock the 3 smaller semidemis? And those 3 semidemis have the most variance in how they influence our gameplay feel? (Yes I AM pushing semidemis) And in the same vein, phoenix is a slightly different bahamut now (just trade a ogcd nuke for an ogcd heal, and add on a passive, instead of totally different casting behaviors), just to start the cycle over again. I guess they gave us the big cool thing first to line up with openers? But idk, I have the same problem with the rotation now. It's weird that we just have to wait for bahamut and phoenix to show up to grant us access to the other summons, instead of having those other summon mechanics support, or feed into, those big showstopping demi summon phases.

And like aetherflow.. What are you even here for anymore?
(You too ruin IV, you are like 100% here because they wanted us to weave into something but they lined up our rotation so that we didn't have an instant cast handy aren't you?)

Like I know it's WAAAAAAAY too late to change anything, so i'm just indulging in a bit of fantasy here, but I'd appreciate it, thematically, if the flow looked less like this



And more like this

I'm sure there could be buff timers and "persists through incapacitation" effects, to ease the harshness that early-sb resource cohesion would cause.

[Dyvid]

So...
Distracting from the argument over who deserves to be happy with the game....

Is it just me, or does the flow from phase to phase feel... off? Like the progression is backwards?

Big ELDER PRIMAL Bahamut is just a cooldown that we use and go through that phase to unlock the 3 smaller semidemis? And those 3 semidemis have the most variance in how they influence our gameplay feel? (Yes I AM pushing semidemis) And in the same vein, phoenix is a slightly different bahamut now (just trade a ogcd nuke for an ogcd heal, and add on a passive, instead of totally different casting behaviors), just to start the cycle over again. I guess they gave us the big cool thing first to line up with openers? But idk, I have the same problem with the rotation now. It's weird that we just have to wait for bahamut and phoenix to show up to grant us access to the other summons, instead of having those other summon mechanics support, or feed into, those big showstopping demi summon phases.

And like aetherflow.. What are you even here for anymore?
(You too ruin IV, you are like 100% here because they wanted us to weave into something but they lined up our rotation so that we didn't have an instant cast handy aren't you?)

Basically this seems to be correct. Demi's act as Aetherflow on a 45 second timer that refresh semidemis, I'll just call them Wind, Earth, and Fire Stance. Demi Bahamut seems to add the elements of DWT to it replace 1 and 2 with ??? and deathflare. It seems you just pick whatever stance you like then summon Phoenix to repeat the process giving you a 60s rotation. Based on the gameplay shown; you'll use Wind Stance for AoE, Earth Stance for heavy movement situations, and Fire Stance for non movement heavy dps situations.

[Roda]

Basically this seems to be correct. Demi's act as Aetherflow on a 45 second timer that refresh semidemis, I'll just call them Wind, Earth, and Fire Stance. Demi Bahamut seems to add the elements of DWT to it replace 1 and 2 with ??? and deathflare. It seems you just pick whatever stance you like then summon Phoenix to repeat the process giving you a 60s rotation. Based on the gameplay shown; you'll use Wind Stance for AoE, Earth Stance for heavy movement situations, and Fire Stance for non movement heavy dps situations.

No you're expected to cycle through all three stances because the charges (you get access to 13 gcds between them + the three summon gcds themselves). You get to pick the order you use them in, but you're going to be using them all. (They all seem to have 1 ST gcd and 1 AoE gcd that consumes a charge on use, like a cherry/lime/lemon flavored aetherflow with gcds, and 1 "signature move" that can be either a 2 part gcd chain, a gcd cast, or an ogcd granted by the ST/aoe skill. No clue if the signature skill is aoe or st, tho. Slipstream is probably aoe tho.) Using all of the charges and those signature moves, I think you have like ~1 gcd more before you go into another demi phase? (depends on if the tooltip is final for demibahamut's duration, or if the gameplay timer is final.)

[Dyvid]

No you're expected to cycle through all three stances because the charges (you get access to 13 gcds between them + the three summon gcds themselves). You get to pick the order you use them in, but you're going to be using them all. (They all seem to have 1 ST gcd and 1 AoE gcd that consumes a charge on use, like a cherry/lime/lemon flavored aetherflow with gcds, and 1 "signature move" that can be either a 2 part gcd chain, a gcd cast, or an ogcd granted by the ST/aoe skill. No clue if the signature skill is aoe or st, tho. Slipstream is probably aoe tho.) Using all of the charges and those signature moves, I think you have like ~1 gcd more before you go into another demi phase? (depends on if the tooltip is final for demibahamut's duration, or if the gameplay timer is final.)

IDK, during the LL he clicked DWT; Bahamut came out, Stances were charged, and recast wheel started for FWT. After the charge was done it appeared FWT was ready within 45s even though he still had stance charges.

[ChazNatlo]

IDK, during the LL he clicked DWT; Bahamut came out, Stances were charged, and recast wheel started for FWT. After the charge was done it appeared FWT was ready within 45s even though he still had stance charges.

This is correct. Once you use DWT/Demi Bahamut, you are not obligated to use any of the Semi Demis/ Egi Jewels. Demi Pheonix/FBT is on a cool down. However, not using them is a notable DPS loss (probably) and by Roda's assessment since the Semi Demi's have limited charges, ideally you'll want to cycle through all of them before Phoenix is up. Which is what I think Roda was getting at.

[Roda]

This is correct. Once you use DWT/Demi Bahamut, you are not obligated to use any of the Semi Demis/ Egi Jewels. Demi Pheonix/FBT is on a cool down. However, not using them is a notable DPS loss (probably) and by Roda's assessment since the Semi Demi's have limited charges, ideally you'll want to cycle through all of them before Phoenix is up. Which is what I think Roda was getting at.

Yeah, thats the point of failure outside of regular dropped gcds, and cooldown drift. They flat out stated in the LL that if you don't use all your summons and their gem spells / extra action in between your trances, then you will "not be doing very much damage"

[Dyvid]

This is correct. Once you use DWT/Demi Bahamut, you are not obligated to use any of the Semi Demis/ Egi Jewels. Demi Pheonix/FBT is on a cool down. However, not using them is a notable DPS loss (probably) and by Roda's assessment since the Semi Demi's have limited charges, ideally you'll want to cycle through all of them before Phoenix is up. Which is what I think Roda was getting at.

Seems odd though considering a few factors. Let's assume Ifrit is the strongest Stance. Bahamut (15s) > Fire Stance (30s) > ???? Now the question is which carries more DPS; Phoenix vs either Wind or Earth Stance. If Phoenix is better, then your non movement rotation would be Bahamut > Fire Stance > Phoenix > Fire Stance > Bahamut. Now if Wind and Earth stance are stronger than Demi, then yes you would want to use all three before moving on... maybe. If Fire stance is the strongest wouldn't you want to try and have it ready at all times which would mean you want to recharge it every 45s; Demi.

Yeah, thats the point of failure outside of regular dropped gcds, and cooldown drift. They flat out stated in the LL that if you don't use all your summons and their gem spells / extra action in between your trances, then you will "not be doing very much damage"

True but we know that players can find ways to maximize things the devs never imagined.

It would have been nice if they would have had the media tour last week so help cut down on a lot of speculation.

[Roda]

Seems odd though considering a few factors. Let's assume Ifrit is the strongest Stance. Bahamut (15s) > Fire Stance (30s) > ???? Now the question is which carries more DPS; Phoenix vs either Wind or Earth Stance. If Phoenix is better, then your non movement rotation would be Bahamut > Fire Stance > Phoenix > Fire Stance > Bahamut. Now if Wind and Earth stance are stronger than Demi, then yes you would want to use all three before moving on... maybe. If Fire stance is the strongest wouldn't you want to try and have it ready at all times which would mean you want to recharge it every 45s; Demi.

"fire stance" is not 30s, its 2 2.8s casted gcds within that 30 seconds (so really 5.6s, or 5.3s if you swiftcast one of them) and 2 instant gcds before you cast another summon spell. If you just cast ifrit and no other summons before phoenix, then you are losing dps for ~30 seconds while your demi trance cools down.