Smn Rework Suggestions After LL

[SweetPete]

I think the issue is more about how smn is going to be 1-2 job now

Red circle spells (Ruin 3 and Tri-Disaster) Are modified by bahamut and phoenix phase.
Green circle spells are ones modified by titan, garuda, ifrit.

When you have phoenix/bahamut, you will spam ruin3/tridisaster reskins.

When you have other primals, you will spam green skills. Those dont seem like they are very interesting to press either. In garuda, you use right green skill to put dot below enemy and then press left one until effects are gone. In titan you spam left and weave right. In ifrit you use left one 2 times, use right 2 times.

In the end you still use 2 buttons for your main rotation regardless of your state. And there isnt much to weave inbetween majority of those spells (its like only one of ifrit's and garuda's spell actually have cast times, everything else is instant)

Thats seemingly the entirety of smn "complexity" as of now, which is an issue, at least for me. That said i overall like the idea of what they were going for.

Looks pretty fun to me. Plenty of other summoner mains think so too. The devs won’t please everyone so it’s fine if a few don’t like the changes. There are other guys that might appeal to you. Hopefully you stick with us though.

[Dyvid]

Looks pretty fun to me. Plenty of other summoner mains think so too. The devs won’t please everyone so it’s fine if a few don’t like the changes. There are other guys that might appeal to you. Hopefully you stick with us though.

Sorry but I don't want to play a half baked Geomancer.

[SweetPete]

How Summoners work in FF is irrelevant because this is a MMO and you can't copy and paste big summons that cast their ultimate and go away and call it a day. Black Mages in FF don't work alternating an ice and a fire phase, yet no one is asking them to rework the job, for example.

This is not the problem, either. The problem is that the job now is completely devoided of depth and complexity. Or anything remotely engaging, really. It looks even easier and boring than 5.X MCH. Almost healers level of complexity, who at least have to worry about health bars.

The bulk of your rotation is composed of four buttons: Ruin III, Tridisaster and the two pet actions. Demi-summons are SMN's inner release with their 11111 spam, primals seems to be different combinations of 1-2. On top of that, you have no DoTs, or debuffs, or buffs to mantain. Movement is braindead because almost everything is instant. There is no resource management.

If this is really how a DPS job will play, I see a panic 6.1 rework to be inevitable. Much like NIN in 5.1 and to a lesser degree SMN itself.

A 6.1 rework? Lol I don’t think so. They aren’t gonna rework the job because very few people saying there is no complex. If you expect a rework then you will be sadly waiting for that. This is the route they are going. It sets up for more primals to be added in the next expansion. They may tweak the damage if it lacks behind the other jobs but that’s all they will do. This will be summoner. Gotta adapt. This job is about to get very popular.

[rewd]

A 6.1 rework? Lol I don’t think so. They aren’t gonna rework the job because very few people saying there is no complex. If you expect a rework then you will be sadly waiting for that. This is the route they are going. It sets up for more primals to be added in the next expansion. They may tweak the damage if it lacks behind the other jobs but that’s all they will do. This will be summoner. Gotta adapt. This job is about to get very popular.

A rework doesn't necessarily mean they are going to scrap 6.0 SMN and come up with another version entirely, and it was already clear when I specifically mentioned 5.1's NIN and SMN. Or AST and the changes it got in 5.1 and 5.3.

It's also very weird how defensive you are getting, especially as you are failing once again (or just pretending) to understand what people are complaining about.

[SweetPete]

Sorry but I don't want to play a half baked Geomancer.

That’s your choice. There’s a allot of jobs in the game.

[ChazNatlo]

To be fair, Miemi's point was that the class doesn't have depth. I'm sure if they gave us the big summons and the summon phases had weaving or something, they'd have less to complain about.

I disagree with their assessment, but "I think the class is hollow" and "this is more on keeping with the power fantasy" are not contradictory arguments.

[Miemi]

To be fair, Miemi's point was that the class doesn't have depth. I'm sure if they gave us the big summons and the summon phases had weaving or something, they'd have less to complain about.

I disagree with their assessment, but "I think the class is hollow" and "this is more on keeping with the power fantasy" are not contradictory arguments.

Yes, 100% agree. I'm only focusing on the 6.0 version of this class since it's all the info we have. Of course it's only gonna get better from this point.

I'm sure if they gave us the big summons and the summon phases had weaving or something

Wouldn't take much, a couple of examples: Lower ED cd, more ED stacks, a bigger range of primal abilities to choose from/to manage, primal oGCDs, less unnecessary movement/longer casts... darn even 1 dot back? There's room for literally anything you can think of

[Roda]

So...
Distracting from the argument over who deserves to be happy with the game....

Is it just me, or does the flow from phase to phase feel... off? Like the progression is backwards?

Big ELDER PRIMAL Bahamut is just a cooldown that we use and go through that phase to unlock the 3 smaller semidemis? And those 3 semidemis have the most variance in how they influence our gameplay feel? (Yes I AM pushing semidemis) And in the same vein, phoenix is a slightly different bahamut now (just trade a ogcd nuke for an ogcd heal, and add on a passive, instead of totally different casting behaviors), just to start the cycle over again. I guess they gave us the big cool thing first to line up with openers? But idk, I have the same problem with the rotation now. It's weird that we just have to wait for bahamut and phoenix to show up to grant us access to the other summons, instead of having those other summon mechanics support, or feed into, those big showstopping demi summon phases.

And like aetherflow.. What are you even here for anymore?
(You too ruin IV, you are like 100% here because they wanted us to weave into something but they lined up our rotation so that we didn't have an instant cast handy aren't you?)

Like I know it's WAAAAAAAY too late to change anything, so i'm just indulging in a bit of fantasy here, but I'd appreciate it, thematically, if the flow looked less like this



And more like this

I'm sure there could be buff timers and "persists through incapacitation" effects, to ease the harshness that early-sb resource cohesion would cause.

[Dyvid]

So...
Distracting from the argument over who deserves to be happy with the game....

Is it just me, or does the flow from phase to phase feel... off? Like the progression is backwards?

Big ELDER PRIMAL Bahamut is just a cooldown that we use and go through that phase to unlock the 3 smaller semidemis? And those 3 semidemis have the most variance in how they influence our gameplay feel? (Yes I AM pushing semidemis) And in the same vein, phoenix is a slightly different bahamut now (just trade a ogcd nuke for an ogcd heal, and add on a passive, instead of totally different casting behaviors), just to start the cycle over again. I guess they gave us the big cool thing first to line up with openers? But idk, I have the same problem with the rotation now. It's weird that we just have to wait for bahamut and phoenix to show up to grant us access to the other summons, instead of having those other summon mechanics support, or feed into, those big showstopping demi summon phases.

And like aetherflow.. What are you even here for anymore?
(You too ruin IV, you are like 100% here because they wanted us to weave into something but they lined up our rotation so that we didn't have an instant cast handy aren't you?)

Basically this seems to be correct. Demi's act as Aetherflow on a 45 second timer that refresh semidemis, I'll just call them Wind, Earth, and Fire Stance. Demi Bahamut seems to add the elements of DWT to it replace 1 and 2 with ??? and deathflare. It seems you just pick whatever stance you like then summon Phoenix to repeat the process giving you a 60s rotation. Based on the gameplay shown; you'll use Wind Stance for AoE, Earth Stance for heavy movement situations, and Fire Stance for non movement heavy dps situations.

[Roda]

Basically this seems to be correct. Demi's act as Aetherflow on a 45 second timer that refresh semidemis, I'll just call them Wind, Earth, and Fire Stance. Demi Bahamut seems to add the elements of DWT to it replace 1 and 2 with ??? and deathflare. It seems you just pick whatever stance you like then summon Phoenix to repeat the process giving you a 60s rotation. Based on the gameplay shown; you'll use Wind Stance for AoE, Earth Stance for heavy movement situations, and Fire Stance for non movement heavy dps situations.

No you're expected to cycle through all three stances because the charges (you get access to 13 gcds between them + the three summon gcds themselves). You get to pick the order you use them in, but you're going to be using them all. (They all seem to have 1 ST gcd and 1 AoE gcd that consumes a charge on use, like a cherry/lime/lemon flavored aetherflow with gcds, and 1 "signature move" that can be either a 2 part gcd chain, a gcd cast, or an ogcd granted by the ST/aoe skill. No clue if the signature skill is aoe or st, tho. Slipstream is probably aoe tho.) Using all of the charges and those signature moves, I think you have like ~1 gcd more before you go into another demi phase? (depends on if the tooltip is final for demibahamut's duration, or if the gameplay timer is final.)