Smn Rework Suggestions After LL

[Raikai]

I'm missing something? I thought the PLL demo was merely to show the skills superficially, I wonder how a lot of people are getting a lof of conclusions out of that...

[SweetPete]

I don't get where this "the Egis give you the same three spells just glammed elementally" comes from. Would someone care to explain to me which Ifrit spells duplicate which Titan spells and which Garuda spells? Maybe I was too awestruck by the pretty colours.

Edit: it is also possible that I miss interpreted the argument.

They are not duplicates. Some people are just tripping and upset about the changes. Losing dots and the attacking pet.

[MercuryD]

People are definitely making premature judgment. We know the basic flow of combat and we won't know more until the embargo is up from the media tour.

Personally, as a SMN main since 2.0 I'm interested in the turn we're taking. I enjoy current SMN but this new design also looks fun and functional.

[Roda]

I'm just too used to being hurt from x.0 patches lmao.

[Miemi]

They are not duplicates. Some people are just tripping and upset about the changes. Losing dots and the attacking pet.

Never said they're duplicates. I think I explained my point fairly decently in my post. If people want to be blinded by shiny animations and ignore how 90% of playstyle got nuked, so be it.

The dot argument is pretty silly, we just happened to have dots, there's more to smn than dots.

[MyakotApelsia]

I don't get where this "the Egis give you the same three spells just glammed elementally" comes from. Would someone care to explain to me which Ifrit spells duplicate which Titan spells and which Garuda spells? Maybe I was too awestruck by the pretty colours.

Edit: it is also possible that I miss interpreted the argument.

I think the issue is more about how smn is going to be 1-2 job now

Red circle spells (Ruin 3 and Tri-Disaster) Are modified by bahamut and phoenix phase.
Green circle spells are ones modified by titan, garuda, ifrit.

When you have phoenix/bahamut, you will spam ruin3/tridisaster reskins.

When you have other primals, you will spam green skills. Those dont seem like they are very interesting to press either. In garuda, you use right green skill to put dot below enemy and then press left one until effects are gone. In titan you spam left and weave right. In ifrit you use left one 2 times, use right 2 times.

In the end you still use 2 buttons for your main rotation regardless of your state. And there isnt much to weave inbetween majority of those spells (its like only one of ifrit's and garuda's spell actually have cast times, everything else is instant)

Thats seemingly the entirety of smn "complexity" as of now, which is an issue, at least for me. That said i overall like the idea of what they were going for.

[Roda]

I think the issue is more about how smn is going to be 1-2 job now

Red circle spells (Ruin 3 and Tri-Disaster) Are modified by bahamut and phoenix phase.
Green circle spells are ones modified by titan, garuda, ifrit.

When you have phoenix/bahamut, you will spam ruin3/tridisaster reskins.

When you have other primals, you will spam green skills. Those dont seem like they are very interesting to press either. In garuda, you use right green skill to put dot below enemy and then press left one until effects are gone. In titan you spam left and weave right. In ifrit you use left one 2 times, use right 2 times.

In the end you still use 2 buttons for your main rotation regardless of your state. And there isnt much to weave inbetween majority of those spells (its like only one of ifrit's and garuda's spell actually have cast times, everything else is instant)

Thats seemingly the entirety of smn "complexity" as of now, which is an issue, at least for me. That said i overall like the idea of what they were going for.

So just an incredibly nitpicky correction the "left green button" is designated as being an "aetherically augmented AoE spell." Implying there will be a ST variant. (backed up by the trailer having 1 unknown spell in each primal demo. That one spell is probably not gonna add a lick of complexity to what we've seen, but there's precedent for features and nuances to be left out. And here's hoping.

[MyakotApelsia]

So just an incredibly nitpicky correction the "left green button" is designated as being an "aetherically augmented AoE spell." Implying there will be a ST variant. (backed up by the trailer having 1 unknown spell in each primal demo. That one spell is probably not gonna add a lick of complexity to what we've seen, but there's precedent for features and nuances to be left out. And here's hoping.

true but as you've said, that single-target spell won't add much, it will still be same rotation for that part

[Dyvid]

Well I guess SE will find out if completely reworking a popular job was a smart decision by how many people continue playing it after 6.1

[Miemi]

People are definitely making premature judgment. We know the basic flow of combat and we won't know more until the embargo is up from the media tour.

We are discussing exactly what they showed us, and they showed enough for us to have a general idea and even theorize about a possible rotation.

It's more likely that what they showed us is what we’ll get, to me it’s unlikely that they're so behind in development they didn't have half the spell book ready to show us, or that they intentionally choose not to show half the spells available. They can change cooldowns or potencies, but adding more spells? No, if that happens it's going to be in 6.1.

true but as you've said, that single-target spell won't add much, it will still be same rotation for that part

Yes, exactly, thank God I'm not crazy.

6.0 has no cast timers save for 4 GCDs. 1.5s casts with nothing to weave is concerning, there’s no reason to be this mobile with so few oGCDs. (and current SMN already is mobile, but with resource management.) Cooldowns feel like nothing, just free damage to spam... and with that mobility + utility I can assure you, dmg will be rightfully nerfed.

6.0 looks like it has the least amount of buttons on any DPS job. A concerning amount for a lvl 90 job kit, it looks like the easiest job the game has ever had. If this is a lvl 90 job, how’s leveling going to be like? For a lvl 50 job it would be absolutely great, but a lvl 90? Very lacking.


The primals and animations are great, but pretty animations is not what keeps people interested. Doing nothing but pressing 1- 2 in slightly different orders won’t keep people interested. Ofc by “people” I mean SMN mains.

This is literally easier/less busy than a DNC, and at least DNC has procs. Nothing against DNCs, what I’m trying to say is that if we wanted that kind of playstyle, we wouldn’t be maining SMN/Caster. We need jobs like Dancer, but not every job has to be like Dancer. A caster shouldn't play like a Physical Ranged. There should be jobs for everybody. Want something more complex or busy? Play SAM. Want something more easy and less busy? Play RDM. I play other jobs besides SMN, but there are reasons why I chose to main SMN, and they're removing those reasons. It hurts.