Smn Rework Suggestions After LL

[Ailuron]

I mean I don't know if that's really accurate, this new XIV summoner fits in perfectly with how FF summoners have been. Let's look at two of FF's most iconic Summoners (if not THE most iconic ones) Yuna and Rydia. Yuna is a primarily summoner/healer who brings out a big ass summon who does some big power attacks then leaves if it is defeated. The summons are very similar to demi's in that way, the only difference being the summoner takes the place of the party. Rydia on the other hand just calls on a summon, it comes in, does a super move and leaves. This is very simmilar to the new summon gems.



The problem with this thought is... They have tried that. Literally for 8 years through at least 4 different reworks they have tried to figure out the pet AI and put it into a playable state that players have liked. And they have failed at each attempt. No matter what the devs tried, the players haven't really gravitated to a pet system that did what they wanted and expected of it. At a certain point if you cant fix a problem despite giving it your best effort, removing the problem entirely so you can focus on something new is a valid way of handling it.

Fair point. I hope this is just one of the many (so far) iterations of SMNs until there could be some sort of middle ground for both types of summoners.

[Cabalabob]

this new XIV summoner fits in perfectly with how FF summoners have been. Let's look at two of FF's most iconic Summoners (if not THE most iconic ones) Yuna and Rydia. Yuna is a primarily summoner/healer who brings out a big ass summon who does some big power attacks then leaves if it is defeated. The summons are very similar to demi's in that way, the only difference being the summoner takes the place of the party. Rydia on the other hand just calls on a summon, it comes in, does a super move and leaves. This is very simmilar to the new summon gems.

Oh yeah and let’s not forget those famous parts where Yuna and Rydia started using meteor strike and dashing into melee range with their fire charge for the next 30 seconds after summoning ifrit to do his one move.

That is my issue with this new design. The thing I’ve hated most about SMN since HW has been trance. It was a bandaid fix for the janky pet AI to put all the focus on the caster. They started to move away from that with demi summons and I was happy with that, we started having decent sized pets using powerful attacks while also attacking in tandem with their summoner casting filler ruin spells with egi assaults (more pet attacks) between demi summons. Trance started to feel like the bandaid was starting to peel off and I was hopeful that for endwalker it would be gone entirely and replaced with more demi summons.

But the rework has gone in the complete opposite direction and put all the focus back on the caster. The pet is only there for a second followed by the summoner doing all the work while his carbuncle literally sits and watches.

Why couldn’t these new primals just work similar to demi primals? Just stay out and when you press the next attack button, instead of the spell coming out of YOU it comes out of the summon? There would be absolutely no change to how the job functions, it would be a purely aesthetic change that would make the summoner into a summoner rather than a discount black mage. And if screen clutter from the big primals is a concern, make it so they elementally enhance carbuncle and do the same thing with him.

In the end my issue is one of aesthetics and you can argue that it’s a minor gripe, but aesthetics are important. If they made black mage into a melee job that mainly attacks with their staff and casts one spell every 5 minutes, it doesn’t matter how fun to play the job is, or how viable it’s rotation is, any real black mage player would not be happy with it, because that’s not a black mage.

So...
Distracting from the argument over who deserves to be happy with the game....

Is it just me, or does the flow from phase to phase feel... off? Like the progression is backwards?

This did cross my mind but we’ll just have to wait and see on that front. When I have some spare downtime in endwalker I’ll probably start a new character and see how the job progresses from level 1 AND see how/if they changed the SMN job quests around the rework.

[Thatusernameistaken]

So am I the only one who thinks the rework is fine? A LOT of people have suggested what we saw in the JAT and a lot of responses in this thread amount to "well yes, but actually no". As.a SMN player I don't have any issues with what I saw, except hoping the pet jank has been addressed.

[AngeliouxRein]

So am I the only one who thinks the rework is fine? A LOT of people have suggested what we saw in the JAT and a lot of responses in this thread amount to "well yes, but actually no". As.a SMN player I don't have any issues with what I saw, except hoping the pet jank has been addressed.

lol

The thing is, SMN is just one of those jobs that even SMN mains couldn’t agree on what we wanted. For a long time, I’ve seen final fantasy die hard fans sell the idea of an “nostalgic” SMN being the SMN we should have. We got that. But we also got the other side of SMN in there that I wanted. Just like rewd mentioned, it’s like they put a piece of every type of SMN people wanted while at the same time taking a lot. People like me got more excited at increased Bahamut skills while others got excited about the new rotation. Both sides are “meh” towards the part of SMN they don’t care for but excited at the same time xD.

It’s an odd time… and I feel for SMN mains that don’t like it all since it looks like the busyness of it isn’t really there with no more DOT management and other things. I’m all kinds of mixed feeling at the moment. Excited, concerned, confused and maybe even a bit annoyed lol.

Just an odd time for SMN .

[Atomos]

What side of smn was ever DoT related... at all in ff series?

[MercuryD]

Summoner wasn't ever really a "pure" summoner, meaning they only summon and have access to no other abilities. Like, classic and iconic summoners throughout the franchise like Yuna, Rydia, Eiko and Garnet were more White mages and Black mages with the ability to occasionally summon. This new iteration is the closest the mainline franchise will have to a pure summoner. Technically, Dissidia and NT Yuna could be called pure in the same way 6.0 is but I digress.

[ssunny2008]

What side of smn was ever DoT related... at all in ff series?

I don´t know why ppl still compare this game to other FF titles. It´s an MMORPG and those work way different than solo games, even if FF´s lore is in it´s core. The FF games have evolved and changed their gameplay over the years too, so...

[Atomos]

I don´t know why ppl still compare this game to other FF titles. It´s an MMORPG and those work way different than solo games, even if FF´s lore is in it´s core. The FF games have evolved and changed their game play over the years too, so...

I was replying to the person who said something about same as older ff smn, just forgot to quote. I know very well it's an mmo and will be different obviously. Although I think they can and should first and foremost keep the base idea and traditions to all the jobs related to the series. And yes ff has changed game play over the years, but summoning has mostly still been the same, only difference is they spend more time on the battlefield for a longer period of time before doing their signature burst moves.

[Blackcanary]

I am so happy that they are dropping the DOT system for SMN. I need to level it up to 80 now so I am ready for Endwalker

[rewd]

I just noticed that Bahamut and Phoenix are basically Inner release/Delirium now. Phoenix doesn't have a 1-2 combo anymore and you just spam FoF for ST and BoP for AoE.

No reason to simplify something that was already simple, but here we go.