Smn Rework Suggestions After LL

[Rika007]

I think my biggest problem with it, is not sharing the same vision of what a summoner should be. In a more traditional FF sense, SMNs aren't actually casters that bring out an entity to fight by their side (a pet class) im guessing but rather a caster that channels the power of these entity.

I mean I don't know if that's really accurate, this new XIV summoner fits in perfectly with how FF summoners have been. Let's look at two of FF's most iconic Summoners (if not THE most iconic ones) Yuna and Rydia. Yuna is a primarily summoner/healer who brings out a big ass summon who does some big power attacks then leaves if it is defeated. The summons are very similar to demi's in that way, the only difference being the summoner takes the place of the party. Rydia on the other hand just calls on a summon, it comes in, does a super move and leaves. This is very simmilar to the new summon gems.

Hell, it makes it much simpler to develop without the AI, but the AI is what makes it unique.. wish they could have just improved it.. instead of removing it altogether. ...

The problem with this thought is... They have tried that. Literally for 8 years through at least 4 different reworks they have tried to figure out the pet AI and put it into a playable state that players have liked. And they have failed at each attempt. No matter what the devs tried, the players haven't really gravitated to a pet system that did what they wanted and expected of it. At a certain point if you cant fix a problem despite giving it your best effort, removing the problem entirely so you can focus on something new is a valid way of handling it.

[Marxam]

1. Emerald (magic ranged), Topaz (support), Ruby (physical melee) carbuncle reworked into magicite that you attune Primal's of your choosing. Egi animations is purely glamour and skill set is tied to the magicite. Ex. Attune Ramuh to Emerald magicite for magic dmg or Topaz for support will be the same as Carbuncle attuned to the same magicite.

2. Carbuncle is your starting summon but can be attuned to different magicite or removed entirely for other pirmal egis.

3. Dreadwyrm Trance reworked into Primal Trance. Exact same as Dreadwyrm Trance but summons a larger version of the currently summoned egi. Ex. Shiva-egi attuned to Ruby magicite will become Shiva when in Primal Trance and uses Diamond Dust when you enkindle. Trance ends upon use.

4. Judgment Trance summons Alexander. Recast timer shared with Bahamut, similar to Dreadwyrm trance and Phoenix. Auto attacks deal aoe instead of single target. Trance rotation at lvl 90 will be Primal > Bahamut > Phoenix > Alexander > repeat.

Source: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...culation/page2

Pretty damn close to what I suggested last year. Seems like they "occasionally" look at the ENG threads. All we need now is Alexander and other Primal like Shiva, Ramuh etc. Maybe as glam?

[Garnix]

I have two suggestions :
1) add Levi, Ramah, Shiva. Make it like this: Bahamut->ifrit,titan,garuda->phoenix->Shiva, Levi, Ramuh-> Bahamut

2) add a DoT mage in 7.0

[Ailuron]

I mean I don't know if that's really accurate, this new XIV summoner fits in perfectly with how FF summoners have been. Let's look at two of FF's most iconic Summoners (if not THE most iconic ones) Yuna and Rydia. Yuna is a primarily summoner/healer who brings out a big ass summon who does some big power attacks then leaves if it is defeated. The summons are very similar to demi's in that way, the only difference being the summoner takes the place of the party. Rydia on the other hand just calls on a summon, it comes in, does a super move and leaves. This is very simmilar to the new summon gems.



The problem with this thought is... They have tried that. Literally for 8 years through at least 4 different reworks they have tried to figure out the pet AI and put it into a playable state that players have liked. And they have failed at each attempt. No matter what the devs tried, the players haven't really gravitated to a pet system that did what they wanted and expected of it. At a certain point if you cant fix a problem despite giving it your best effort, removing the problem entirely so you can focus on something new is a valid way of handling it.

Fair point. I hope this is just one of the many (so far) iterations of SMNs until there could be some sort of middle ground for both types of summoners.

[Tulzscha]

I like DoTs but also think new SMN looks great. I suppose this makes room for a DoT focussed job in the future?

I sure hope so, that would most likely be my new main. For now I guess I'll try Bard. It's nice to see SMN be more about the summons but looks like it might be reeeaally boring. I know a lot of people complain about its rotation but I like it. Ah well.

[XmissionsX]

I personally am extremely disappointed with the ew smn changes. I just leveled my smn to 80 and it feels I leveled the wrong job.

Jokingly announcing that there will be three new jobs in ew effectively announcing the end of current summoner was not funny to me. As I spend a lot of time perfecting the rotation and learning proper pet management.

I personally choose smn as it had a complicated busy rotation with added depth in keeping up dots and manage pets. I loved especially in dungeons run to apply the dots bane and pets just at the right time while the tank wall to wall pulled the mobs.

The point is that I choose this job because of the unique actions and now they all get removed and I am left with a completely different job, it did not help that the summoner demo showed a extremely simplified rotation also which didn’t look that interesting or challenging.

It’s now a flashy mage with fun graphics spell effects which add nothing mechanics wise and I really could care less about. Most people don’t even have full spells effects enabled so never will see them anyway.

Guess I now have to decide if I try to grind a BLM to 80 in 2 months before ew As the blm looks way more interesting now then ew-smn or just stick with the newly added job ew-smn.

[Miemi]

SMN main here, I'm not a hardcore player but I very much enjoy endgame content (about to clear TEA as SMN) and find optimization interesting and fun, so what I'm gonna say will be mostly negative... I'll be judging from what they showed us in the LL and analysis from the community.

They pretty much took the resource management aspect of SMN and threw it out of the window. No more dots managment. No more Ruin IV stacks management. No more movement management. No more CDs/oGCDs management. Oh yeah they kept aetherflow, the worst thing SMN had in its kit.

If you remove the fluff, this is the amount of skills 6.0 has, and it's pretty much all instant GCDs:


And don't tell me "You get different spells once you summon/use primals." In the end you're still pressing the same button with a different animation. And STILL, they're not even oGCDs. They reduced the job to a 1-2GCD rotation, with plenty of weave space but no oGCDs to weave in.

Having more conscious options and choices you need to make in a rotation is more objectively interesting than not having those decisions. And 6.0 SMN doesn't have those choices. The direction the job is taking thematically is good, but it feels half-finished, underdeveloped. Or like a Physical DPS with half the spells in Caster gear.

6.0 SMN will have the complexity and numbers of spells of a lvl 50 job. From fairly complex and rewarding job, to well, braindead. Beginners and casual players will love it, SMN mains/endgame enthusiasts already don't like it.

In 6.0 me and other SMN mains won't be able to play the job we loved anymore. It won't have the same depth and complexity it currently has. It's just depressing. If I wanted to play a simpler job, I wouldn't main or enjoy SMN.

This is not about not having dots anymore, this is not about pet AI, this is not about "better or worse." This is about replacing a job with something completely different, and on top of that it feels unfinished...

[Alundarus]

I have two suggestions :
1) add Levi, Ramah, Shiva. Make it like this: Bahamut->ifrit,titan,garuda->phoenix->Shiva, Levi, Ramuh-> Bahamut

I could definitely see this happening in 7.0 (and I hope it does, because that would be very cool)

[SweetPete]

I absolutely love the new summoner changes. All I ever wanted was to be an actual summoner. I also love the physical range jobs so summoner going that direction with lots of instant cast makes me happy.

I hated the dots so glad they are gone. I don’t think there will be an actual optimal rotation to it because of so many ogcds and that is just fine by me. It’s my main job and I haven’t been happy with it for a very long time so seeing the 6.0 changes just brings me so much joy. We’re no longer knock off wow warlocks.

Thank you SE! All I want now is shiva, leviathan ramuh and Alexander and I will be the happiest summoner ever!

[ChazNatlo]

I don't get where this "the Egis give you the same three spells just glammed elementally" comes from. Would someone care to explain to me which Ifrit spells duplicate which Titan spells and which Garuda spells? Maybe I was too awestruck by the pretty colours.

Edit: it is also possible that I miss interpreted the argument.