Are the numbers too high?

[Junpei]

So, and this is what I have worked out skimming this thread.

Your defence stat should be equal to the cumulative defence stats of your gear. But currently you have base defence stat, that is somewhat like have skin made from chainmail by the time you are level 50.

Yes, that should be abolished. You should have 0defence if your in the nude!


The next issue is.

If an archer has 300 defence, and a tank has 500 defence.

Why doesn't an archer take 200 more damage from duplicate attack? Obviously the damage mechanic is more complicated than

Attack Damage - Defence stat = Damage received

Though maybe it should'nt be so complicated??

[Eldaena]

This thread is really confusing and even some of the arguments cannot really have any merit because no one fully understands the process of how stats work in this game.

My thoughts provoked by this thread are: (Speaking in realistic terms) Just because you aren't wearing any clothes does that make you weaker? Yes, I suppose it does a little, but does it make you incapable? I don't suddenly forget how to fight if I'm not wearing any clothes, and having these said clothes, wouldn't make me hit an enemy any less hard. I would be a bit cold and have lower defenses, though, sure.

Also, about stats capping, how is this actually proven? I was under the impression that there is more than just Strength to the damage you do on melee, for example. Don't the other stats play a role as well? Something to the effect of their defense/vitality/etc vs your strength/attack/etc to actually determine how much you are dealing to them?

I don't know much about how the little changes in comparison to our base stats, gear actually contributes to our end output, but I do know, for example, that even a bit of healing potentcy goes a long way on my conjurer, combined with the mind gear that I use. I'm convinced that in the future gear and materia will give us even more stats than we gain now, and I think whether it is big or small numbers it still is noticeable differences with these things. I don't parse, but I can feel a difference with gear and materia vs nude combat. (I also see a drastic change in my heals.) Even if I am using a great weapon, I can feel a difference if I'm not wearing my gear! Just because you can beat content without some gear doesn't necessarily discredit the gear or stats, however. It does take some skill and effort to do those things, it's not just about the stats.

Maybe if it was more difficult to get to 50 again, people wouldn't have a problem with the base stats on characters.

[Zangetsu]

Yeah, I am and ARC / THM / CNJ. How is auto attack on those classes aplicable to your comment?





Okay, you have been shown, I am happily awaiting you next comment.

Apparently you don't know archer very well and I was under the assumption we were discussing DOW classes. For Mage magic damage use INt and Mag att

[Majidah]

Lets just hold hands and chant until a mod walks in with developer feedback.

[Rydin]

Tons of damage doesn't even come into it, if you get hit by a moogle with reindeer suit on it should be a 9999 hit.

Of course stats work, for example if you go pick a fight with lvl a 99 goblin he will hit you for 9999 damage.

But the reason this doesn't happen when people go to Ifrit/moogle naked/low geared is because base stats are too high.

Thats all I'm saying... If you're nude and a rank 55 MOB hits you... it should destroy you

My point remains the same, the fact that you can do the 3 main level 50 "raids" in all level one gear with the same effort as in "top end" gear, is clear display that stats and gear are broken. Because if that is working as intended, then the way I see it, the intension is wrong.

AGREED!!!!
And honestly... there is a big part of me that thinks it was their intention... in which case we end up arguing philosophy as opposed to working vs broken

You should get harder I'm just saying the stats do work they just need to fix them is all. The damage calculation for this game has always been fuked up tbh. I wish they would code their stats like pokemon -.- because in that game I can know exactly how much dmg i take based on another pokes attack stat vs my def stat.

A couple of the Formulae could use some minor tweaks.... but more than anything... it would be easier to manage if stats were lower

Keako will tell you that it doesn't matter because of the linearity of stats.
For Example....
My Attack stat is 550... and I deal 200 AA damage to a MOB
I boost my attack to 600 and now I deal 230 AA damage

He is saying if the stats were super boosted so I had 5 million attack.. and the monsters stats were also boosted so I was doing 200 AA damage....
then boosting my Attack to 5,000,050 would cause me to do 230 AA damage because the increase isn't relative to the base. I contend that it is relative. Without being able to test a level 50 class with stats below base (Which is obviously impossible) and without knowing the damage formula... its hard to know who is correct

your base stats are too high from leveling, imo they should be cut in have of what they are and adjust gear to make up the difference/balance.

thats my thought.... Instead of 500 base attack and 80 attack from gear.... If you aren't going to lower stats then I propose 200 base Attack and 380 attack from gear
the way they have it now... you could take a zero off of everything (divide by ten) and still keep gear stats the same
+3 Str on Gloves would be a lot more enticing if Att was 58 and STR was 30

[Coglin]

Apparently you don't know archer very well and I was under the assumption we were discussing DOW classes. For Mage magic damage use INt and Mag att

I was making reference to the fact that he was specifically commenting on damage from auto attack. Which becomes a bit pointless with DoM classes, and does not exist in ARC. Although the way they effect Heavy/Light shot has the same effect, none the less its not an auto attack.

So, and this is what I have worked out skimming this thread.

Your defence stat should be equal to the cumulative defence stats of your gear. But currently you have base defence stat, that is somewhat like have skin made from chainmail by the time you are level 50.

Yes, that should be abolished. You should have 0defence if your in the nude!


The next issue is.

If an archer has 300 defence, and a tank has 500 defence.

Why doesn't an archer take 200 more damage from duplicate attack? Obviously the damage mechanic is more complicated than

Attack Damage - Defence stat = Damage received

Though maybe it should'nt be so complicated??

My perspective here, is that I could see MRD/GLD having higher base defence for example, and PGL having a much higher base evade/parry rate. Just tossing up broad examples, but my point is that various classes could have higher base numbers inately in the areas of specialty shall we say. At least thats my take on it.

On your point about the damage taken, yeah its definently out of whack.

[Jinko]

I agree Jinko, You should get harder I'm just saying the stats do work they just need to fix them is all. The damage calculation for this game has always been fuked up tbh. I wish they would code their stats like pokemon -.- because in that game I can know exactly how much dmg i take based on another pokes attack stat vs my def stat.

Yea I get the feeling that the original team made such a mess coding the game that Yoshida's team can't change it enough without breaking something fundamental.

Can only hope that 2.0 will solve this problem.

that is somewhat like have skin made from chainmail by the time you are level 50.

Funny because its true

Attack Damage - Defence stat = Damage received

Though maybe it should'nt be so complicated??

Pretty much.

+3 Str on Gloves would be a lot more enticing if Att was 58 and STR was 30

Yup this !

[Rydin]

So, and this is what I have worked out skimming this thread.

Your defence stat should be equal to the cumulative defence stats of your gear. But currently you have base defence stat, that is somewhat like have skin made from chainmail by the time you are level 50.

Yes, that should be abolished. You should have 0defence if your in the nude!

depending on the formulae... a zero stat could cause issues...
the happy medium is nude should be anywhere from 10-50% of fully geared stats....
I am leaning closer to 10% but I am a man of compromise

But you are correct... in many of the series... leveling got you Vitality... Gear got you defense... and they rarely ever mixed... Here... Leveling gets you Vitality and Defense... and gear gets you some defense too

The next issue is.

If an archer has 300 defence, and a tank has 500 defence.

Why doesn't an archer take 200 more damage from duplicate attack? Obviously the damage mechanic is more complicated than

Attack Damage - Defence stat = Damage received

Though maybe it should'nt be so complicated??

Defense actually isn't horrible... it just suffers from the base stats issue...
I don't know if I want the stats to be that simple...
of the entire series... the original title had the simplest formula... while, IMO... FFXII had the best
FFXI's was actually awesome too.... It's just the only game where MOBs have VIT and DEF just like player characters
so instead of [(Attack/modifier + Str/modifier)*buffs/debuffs] - (Def*buffs/debuffs)
you had to go Att vs Def and Str vs VIT (Kaeko dont be mad at me for oversimplifying it)
I also didn't like how strength directly affected your attack stat and also had a separate place in the formula
Weapon rank set the upper and lower cap for your Str-VIT and the being below the level of the MOB applied a modifier to your Att/def

The one thing I will say about it is that it made it so SE could manipulate MOB stats to make different builds more ideal in different situations... and made it MUCH HARDER to decipher the formula and figure out each MOBs stats

A MOB with HIGH Vit, you'd want to boost your STR
High DEF MOBs and its all about Attack

In a way... I can understand MOBs having both DEF and VIT....
but at the end of the day... I liked FFXII.... They even had different formula for each type of weapon.... Dagger and Ninja sword damage was also modified by speed

[Rydin]

but I do know, for example, that even a bit of healing potentcy goes a long way on my conjurer

That is subjective.... At level 50 each point of healing potency adds 1.25 hp of healing to Cure and 2.50 hp of healing to Cura

[Zangetsu]

I was making reference to the fact that he was specifically commenting on damage from auto attack. Which becomes a bit pointless with DoM classes, and does not exist in ARC. Although the way they effect Heavy/Light shot has the same effect, none the less its not an auto attack.



My perspective here, is that I could see MRD/GLD having higher base defence for example, and PGL having a much higher base evade/parry rate. Just tossing up broad examples, but my point is that various classes could have higher base numbers inately in the areas of specialty shall we say. At least thats my take on it.

The fact that AA stats effect light shot is more than enoug reason to raise them.

Although I am defending that AA stas work I am disappointed with other stats.From my testing VIT has little to no effect on damage you take. There is no difference from 200-350 VIT. Defense does ur damage though. Every 100 I have seen damage cut by around 30.