Are the numbers too high?

[YuriSan]

LOL!! Stats hmm...
I have been testing and shouting about stats not really being an issue in any battle
since errm... forever. lol

Thats why i have a bucket next to my sofa. incase i bump onto someone that will say something
like this and i get the urge to puke:
"Hey man you should wear the barbut it has +3 STR more than what you are wearing"
LIKE +3 STR WILL DO ANYTHING AT ALL!!! LMAO!!!
Thats why i laugh at peeps looking like total idiots trying to get many stat points + when instead they can have like 5 less points and actually look awesome...

[Karleguarth]

I have a few assumptions (hence, not tested not parsed) which would make the little STR+3 on gears make sense..

Before the assumptions, here's the stuff I know:

First of all, base damage of weapon has the biggest role.
(Tested with Yew long bow critical damage build and Ifrit's Bow PIE build, the later can deal 10k+ damage in a moogle fight)

We knew stat values have thresholds.
(+-285 PIE/DEX on Archer gives no more obvious change, tested by Seiken: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...IE-ATK-Testing.. Adjusted to +-285 to my own "fine tuning tests")

And here's the assumptions:

If.. STR, or one of the "Damage bonus stat" from SE are there to deal with damage resistance checks, and they're classified into "levels" with thresholds:

Level 1 - STR 100
Level 2 - STR 125
Level 3 - STR 150
and so on..

It's going to compete against VIT, to see if a part of the damage dealt is going to be resisted, much like magical resists.
(but in that case it's always halved if your magical accuracy failed to do its job)

Then it's going to be some "Level Wars" between them:
Level 1 STR vs Level 1 VIT = 50% chance of damage reduced occurring
Level 2 STR vs Level 1 VIT = 40% chance of damage reduced occurring
Level 3 STR vs Level 1 VIT = 30% chance of damage reduced occurring

For now let's forget about how much damage is going to be reduced eventually, let's just consider about the chance of it happening.

Assumption inside assumption scenario:
In an Ifrit Battle, every one died besides you, Ifrit runs to you and tries to claw you.. but it misses, but you don't even have Featherfoot on you. (It does happened to my THM and CNJ for times, could be the Sear but it doesn't matter here)

What's happening here is... your level of "Evade" vs Ifrit's level of "landing a hit" won.
Even when it's a 0.5% chance, even when it's level 2 vs level 99.

(Almost time to back to the original topic)
What the above stuff which turns STR+3 on a gear into a valid and useful value is,
it increases the value of STR to the next threshold.

The actual gain of someone with 260 STR, which is roughly someone of level 50 without materia gears (I hope it's correct here) will then be:
3/20, where 20 being the STR needed for next threshold, and it's a 15% progress,
instead of 3/260.

So again.. The above are just my assumptions, not something I declare what's happening in the game.. but it would be nice to see what people think. There could be information I missed and making them completely wrong.

[Coglin]

All this debate seems pointless to me, the fact that a group can defeat ifrit all decked out in level 1 gear is enough said.

[YuriSan]

It's prolly me but i always thought:

200 STR "X" damage.
300 STR more damage than 200 STR damage....

But ya lets bring a scientist to help, a mathematitian even better...

[Jinko]

It's prolly me but i always thought:

200 STR "X" damage.
300 STR more damage than 200 STR damage....

But ya lets bring a scientist to help, a mathematitian even better...

State the obvious much ?

I think we are all aware that a higher number = a higher value.

The problem is that a naked group shouldn't in theory be able to kill Ifrit, the system is broken.

[YuriSan]

State the obvious much ?

I think we are all aware that a higher number = a higher value.

The problem is that a naked group shouldn't in theory be able to kill Ifrit, the system is broken.

Ya i'm 100% with ya. i'm just kinda replying to those who defend stats with riduiculousuly overcomplicated blocks of text
and charts..



I mean it's as simple as this. u dont wear gear? Primal should kill u one hit KO!
U use gear that has over 50 per vital damage output stat more than some other set? u should see a solid difference in your damage output..

BTW anyone ever seen any of the DEVs replying on any of these "stats dont work" threads?
If so please send a link if possible...

[MeeYow]

OK, so, firstly in regards to the thread title, it's all about fractional differences, big base numbers mean big differences are required, if you can't understand something as basic as that, you are screwed. Higher or lower base numbers makes no odds, its just a ratio. It was done this way for a reason, which I will come back to later.

All damage mechanics within the uncapped stat region seem pretty linear but with varying gradients, it can however be said that if you increase (all of) your damage stats by 50% it averages out to an increase your damage by roughly 50%. The notable exception here is m.acc (and possibly acc) which seem to work on some non linear function of m.acc-m.evais judging by the very steep change in resist rate between 425 and 450 m.acc on Ifrit.

The problem here as usual is balance, plenty of people complain about their gear not making no difference because they don't understand the system, meanwhile I am running around 1 shotting Sprindiggles on my THM. If you guys get a boost by increasing the base stats on gear, how broken does a decently geared THM become? (None of this is THM specific, but it's my main, what I have done most of my testing on, and the only DD where stats aren't dominated by weapon base damage, so it's pretty much my ideal case study for everything xiv)

Now, the reason why base stats are in the hundreds and not the tens? It is because of solo-ability, SE made this game so people could reliably hold their own solo, especially on mobs lower than them (compare with 11 where fighting a lv50 mob was almost the same as fighting a level75 one solo for most jobs). This requires the base stats to grow non linearly with level, so that rather than hit a a lv25 mob for 2x what we hit it for at 25, we hit it for 5 to 10x as much. We can see this in game, just go to the wards and look at the base damage values of weapons as a function of level to see that.

What I am trying to say here, is you have to look at all aspects of the game, and make sure your change doesn't break other parts. The case in point here is Ifrit. Yes, Ifrit can be done naked, but everyone takes this fact as a rush to say that character stats need to be adjusted, without taking a second to consider how it affects other parts of the game. The correct solution after considering other parts of the game and their balance, is that Ifrit's stats need to be raised.

Thats why i laugh at peeps looking like total idiots trying to get many stat points + when instead they can have like 5 less points and actually look awesome...

Honestly the reason base stats on gear are so low-pre materia are exactly for this reason, to allow people to equip items for the visual aspect and then put materia on for stats. I posted what I think is a far better alternative that doesn't screw over raid/NM gear here. However, have you actually parsed against any of these "total idiots"? There are reasonable limits for both cases.

[Jinko]

MeeYow none of that explains how a naked group can (should be able to) defeat Ifrit.

The reason they can is because base stats are too high, say for example they completely removed base stats and moved them to gear.

A well geared level 50 player would still retain his ability to do the same content solo or otherwise because his stats would be roughly the same as they were before.

However if the same character was wearing no armour or level 25 armour his stats would be much lower meaning he could no longer fight Ifrit naked.

This would solve both issues.
. Gear not providing a decent boost to stats
. Players not being able to kill stuff with insufficient gear or naked.

Of course if you can show evidence that this would break the game please do, obviously not forgetting that gear would be required to compensate for base stats across the board.

I'm not suggesting that base stats be completely abolished as that would be a bit overkill, but they do need to be reduced by 50-75% IMO.

[MeeYow]

Seriously? I put it in bold and everything.

Are you basically trying to say you want every last piece of stat progression to be on equipped gear?

Because almost every piece can be equipped by several classes, there goes that class individuality thing again.

[Jinko]

Seriously? I put it in bold and everything.

Nothing is in bold on my end.

Are you basically trying to say you want every last piece of stat progression to be on equipped gear?

Outside of prehaps stat point allotment, yes, why not ?

Because almost every piece can be equipped by several classes, there goes that class individuality thing again.

Skills would still have their own stat modifiers so what may work for a GLD/PLD may not work for a MRD/WAR.