Would skill based match making be good for FFXIV?

[Artemiz]

Never heard any complaints about this before. When and where does this even happen?

Also if you're that high of a "skilled" player then why are you doing fast easy content? Most high skilled players just stick to the end-game content.

The whole idea of splitting the community up between "good" and "bad" players is bad overall. The good players should be helping the not so good get better.

I was talking to new players a couple of days ago, ones from real life I had convinced to give the game a try. Several of them have said that they do like the dungeons but feel pressured to go faster than they would like. The first 3 or 5 dungeons are so critical for player retention so a more pleasant experience for new players would be very good in my opinion.

I think you might have misunderstood my intent, I'm not claiming to be better than anyone, it's just an idea, there is no ulterior motive.

While I agree the good player should help constructive criticism is an art form everyone thinks they have but few really do. Teaching it a trained skill, not an inate ability and the 3,200 page thread on this forum, dedicated to complaining about party members proves the current method isn't really working. In addition to that I think players learn best when they have to take active responsibility for their roles, steaming through content and ignoring mechanics because sync'd players are OP is inferior to players learning with each other.

Those systems are meant for ranked PvP content so that new people don’t get smoked by veteran players. That would be an absolutely horrible idea to add to the Duty Finder. It would also be difficult to improve if they were only ever matched up with “low skill” players. It’s honestly good that you get a mix, content often feels too easy when everyone is skilled and you never have any stakes.

Not anymore they aren't, the controversy in other games is its use in casual content, it's done to make new player experiences more rewarding. I think my impression of the game, playing with all the other noobs during 2.0, would be more rewarding than getting dragged through 95% of content by players who have done it 500 times.

SE wants veterans and good players to "teach" (or even carry) others players

thats why u get bribed with tomes , +1 chance for the book , materia (adv in need) and while Duty roulettes exist on the 1 place...

Is the roulette system really teaching new players and giving them a great experience though? or dragging them unprepared into later, harder content? Many roulette's are there for the new players benefit after all, not veterans.

That's what PF is for: So people can be more selective about their parties if they really need to.

As designed, it takes more effort to exclude people. And the game gives more rewards for mingling and helping newbies (hence the Roulette bonuses).

I'm not sure about other servers but I think the vast majority of players, old and new, don't use party finder for leveling parties or even tome grinding. Adjusting the behavior of the entire NA and EU player base would be very difficult at this stage.

I think it would be asking for more toxicity just to cater to vets that want all their roulettes to be fast and easy or new players to stop and enjoy the dungeons, both of which seem to be extreme outliers already.

The whole point is to put a little daylight between the two ends of the spectrum, I think that would reduce toxicity rather than increase it.

Pretty much defeats having a Duty Finder if it's going to be cut up into different queues. Party Finder exists if someone wants to set the parameters of their run.

It wouldn't be a different queue, it would be the same one just one that puts some emphasis on skill level while matching players.

Yeah, this part I should have mentioned for actually being bad for the game. Queue times would increase, especially during content lulls. In a perfect world players at the lower end would be encouraged to play at a higher level, and higher level players would get swift queues, and clears. Unfortunately, neither would happen - at least not consistently on a mass level. Yeah, what would it be based on in the first place? This is a pretty lofty system, and I doubt it would (or could) even be implemented well.

Without a doubt this is possible, queue times could increase but the strength of the SBMM can easily be tightened or relaxed. The statistics used for determining skill are obviously a big debate, it doesn't have to be too complicated though. Consider players who have cleared current savage as high tier, players yet to complete ARR MSQ low tier, something like that.

It would be amusing to see what would happen when groups filled with no DPS healers who still manage to let tanks die, single-pull tanks who can't hold aggro and use no mitigation, and no-AoE DPS who do less damage than a decent healer all start playing exclusively with one another.

I'm sure they will clear dungeons just fine, just not at a pace that many veterans would be happy with. Under the current system though you could land in a party with 3 of those anyway. Then it's up to you to carry.

[Shurrikhan]

Not anymore they aren't, the controversy in other games is its use in casual content, it's done to make new player experiences more rewarding. I think my impression of the game, playing with all the other noobs during 2.0, would be more rewarding than getting dragged through 95% of content by players who have done it 500 times.

This, for pretty much any MMO I've played. It's more fun to be forced to learn things with other people who have yet to learn them than have the content speedrun outside your control (and therefore often your ability to learn from) or face exasperation from veteran players because their daily content cycle still forces them through the same content you're moving up through for the first time.

[LisSquid]

Meh. DF instances lack the kind of teeth that requires MMR. I can't really think of many instances in the que where you carry that much weight due to low skilled players, and wall to wall pulling is already capped out by blocking you with.. walls. Every 5 feet.

No one is paying attention in duties anyway (my friends and I will vote kick each other for funzies whenever we get a CT raid. Goes through every time), so just engage that duty function on the sam who has been staring at a wall for 5 minutes. I'll kick the Cure 1 mage. I'll kick the tank that doesn't use mitigation. All after asking them to adjust all of these things, mind. That's what the kick function is for.

I also don't think having to spend even 20 extra minutes in a dungeon due to a less skilled and lower geared player is hindering. That is just what it is playing an MMO with linear progression: You're going to encounter people better and worse than you all the time.

People are free to take their static into their daily roulettes for an optimal experience. If they want to solo que their game with everyone in attendance matching their own standard, well, there are plenty of single player RPGs for them.

[Rinhi]

You'll meet the occasional person who reacts "badly" to tips or suggestions, even very mildly stated ones like "Does anyone need a rundown of the mechanics?" after a wipe or "we should prioritize the tethered mobs, they can't be tanked" on Amaurot.

I will quickly say this is a rarity.. but they exist.

However if you're being rebuked for your help all the time.. yeah.. maybe you're not being as nice as you think?

"hey X, I've noticed you've been having troubles healing the tank with cure 1, cure 2 has a higher healing potency and is just marginally slower to cast and needs more MP than 1, plus, it's basically a straight up upgrade, and that'd make it easier to heal the tank "
"hey X, I've noticed you've been standing around doing nothing during pulls and waiting to having to heal the tank, if you pop a regen on them and use your AoE spells on more than 2 mobs, you'd help the run immensely, holy is even a tank's best mitigation tool! "
"hey Y, I've seen you're not using your mitigation skills during pulls or when you were on low health, abilities like rampart/30% mitigation/Reprisal+AL are helping a LOT against incoming damage and make it easier on the healer and are used best right after you pulled the enemies, not when they're almost dead! "

"fuk u u don't pay my sub"

I'm not sure if this is something of a primal thing, but I've seen people, or have been insulted, for trying to help, no matter how nice it was
on the other hand, I've seen toxic players insult a "bad" player and that they should do X and Y, and said player then did X and Y without complaining a few times as well
but yeah, I wonder if you've played on a primal server before, seeing as most of the people that posted about seeing this were also on primal, if I'm not misremembering

I never in any way blamed people trying to help. I clearly stated what I have experienced. I have never seen anyone trying to help get flammed but I have seen people be rude in the methods they use to try to help. This isn't in FF14 but many games over my lifetime.

"I bet the people trying to give the tips are doing in a tone that doesn't seem very pleasant."
see above, I've seen more nice people explaining abilities or mechanics get insulted by the players they're trying to help than actual a**holes being called what they are for, well, being a**holes

[Wavaryen]

"hey X, I've noticed you've been having troubles healing the tank with cure 1, cure 2 has a higher healing potency and is just marginally slower to cast and needs more MP than 1, plus, it's basically a straight up upgrade, and that'd make it easier to heal the tank "
"hey X, I've noticed you've been standing around doing nothing during pulls and waiting to having to heal the tank, if you pop a regen on them and use your AoE spells on more than 2 mobs, you'd help the run immensely, holy is even a tank's best mitigation tool! "
"hey Y, I've seen you're not using your mitigation skills during pulls or when you were on low health, abilities like rampart/30% mitigation/Reprisal+AL are helping a LOT against incoming damage and make it easier on the healer and are used best right after you pulled the enemies, not when they're almost dead! "

"fuk u u don't pay my sub"

I'm not sure if this is something of a primal thing, but I've seen people, or have been insulted, for trying to help, no matter how nice it was
on the other hand, I've seen toxic players insult a "bad" player and that they should do X and Y, and said player then did X and Y without complaining a few times as well
but yeah, I wonder if you've played on a primal server before, seeing as most of the people that posted about seeing this were also on primal, if I'm not misremembering



"I bet the people trying to give the tips are doing in a tone that doesn't seem very pleasant."
see above, I've seen more nice people explaining abilities or mechanics get insulted by the players they're trying to help than actual a**holes being called what they are for, well, being a**holes

I mean are they wrong? You don't pay, and you are doing a pug group. If they wanted help. They would ask.

[Rinhi]

I mean are they wrong? You don't pay, and you are doing a pug group. If they wanted help. They would ask.

if I wanted your input on the topic, I'd have asked
your logic, by the way, seeing as you don't pay my sub either and responded to me without asking

[Wavaryen]

if I wanted your input on the topic, I'd have asked
your logic, by the way, seeing as you don't pay my sub either and responded to me without asking

I mean you are posting on the forums so I figure you wanted the help. Clearly you need it as you don't know how to help people in the right way without them getting offended. Unlike these players. Clearly you are asking help because people don't want too listen to you in a pug. So glad I could help. If you need more help. Let me know.

[Vyrerus]

I was talking to new players a couple of days ago

So, there's no going back to most people being newbs except at new expansion release. The unfortunate part of joining any online game late in its life is that you are forced to learn things faster and differently than those who played it before you.

Roulettes require duty completion prior to roulette participation, so no one in a roulette is ever fully a newb. Except for in 50/60/70 possibly, due to skip potions. Not sure on that, honestly, as I haven't skipped an alt to use.

Two problems with the, "simple" metric you suggest.
1) Savage doesn't release immediately, and wouldn't be in play.
2) Many high end players don't take roulettes seriously at all, and some even game the system by being lackadaisical auto attacking and nothing else the whole time kinds of people. Basically there's no way SBMM can account for human engagement with PvE. It would drive down roulette participation.

I think you misunderstand the 3200 page thread related to Duty Finder. That thread could more or less be retitled as, "Human Nature." Many of the players complained about within it aren't even newbies. They're vets themselves that are basically shitposting by running duties inefficiently for fun or botching mechanics for fun to see other players die. There are players that do this too, all of the time.

Like sure, there's complaints about newbies too, but it is not newbcentric.

[Vyrerus]

List of examples of trying to help people help themselves

Unfortunately, Rinhi, there is no surefire way to help newbies learn their jobs. You could explain how and why another skill is so good, or that doing combos is amazing, but we really have to operate by the adage, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

All of your examples are longer than the standard tooltip for skills, and most newbies don't even read those.

In my experience, the only time newbies want and ask and are receptive to help is when they are having problems desperate enough to prevent simply clearing the content. All other times they see advice as, "Minmaxing" even if it's something as innocuous as, "Hey, uhm, could you please use your weaponskills? You've just been auto attacking this whole time."

In regards to Krojack talking to you about it, personally I think they don't get into roulettes enough. I've seen tons of people trying to help, even in the nicest way possible given guff or stonefaced silence over the years. In FFXIV.

[LisSquid]

I mean are they wrong? You don't pay, and you are doing a pug group. If they wanted help. They would ask.

They're not wrong, but the kick function exists and majority rules in these cases. I rarely encounter the "You don't pay my sub!" people, so it's never been something I've had to do on the regular.

However, you sign a hidden contract when you enter the duty finder. Your spot in the pug isn't guaranteed just because you used the que.