Would skill based match making be good for FFXIV?

[Shurrikhan]

Just don't give unsolicited advice. Kick or leave, if you feel it's necessary, I say.

It seems a pretty backwards environment we play in when kicking people without a word is considered less toxic than giving advice.

[deadman1204]

The OP should really try healing in the duty finder for awhile.

I've found a correlation between bad skill and high avg item level. If someone (often a tank) has a really high item level, they have a chance of being an amazing player. They also have a good chance of being the worst player on the team. They just expect the healer to carry them while they walk to the end, cause dailies are boring and they are too busy watching tv to push any buttons.

Far lesser geared players are way more likely to be thoughtful and trying. They don't have the experience and are trying to learn. "Veterans" who don't give a crap are actually the worst players possible in DF.

[Artemiz]

The OP should really try healing in the duty finder for awhile.

I've found a correlation between bad skill and high avg item level. If someone (often a tank) has a really high item level, they have a chance of being an amazing player. They also have a good chance of being the worst player on the team. They just expect the healer to carry them while they walk to the end, cause dailies are boring and they are too busy watching tv to push any buttons.

Far lesser geared players are way more likely to be thoughtful and trying. They don't have the experience and are trying to learn. "Veterans" who don't give a crap are actually the worst players possible in DF.

I won't claim to be an experienced healer but I did plenty of roulette content at 50 when it was the level cap. That said, I think most of us are quite used to playing with randoms by now and we all have our problems. I tank most of the time but I won't make sweeping generalisations about healers.

Either way, the whole point of this is to try and separate you from those tanks you dislike so much, ilevel doesn't really have much to do with it.

[Awha]

It seems a pretty backwards environment we play in when kicking people without a word is considered less toxic than giving advice.

Unfortunately that is the enviorment that is fostered by the mentality that tone and presentation trump everything else when it comes to discourse.

I do feel this is just a byproduct of both sides just being fsr too soft and or tired myself included.

[Novae]

I don't know. DF seems pretty ok to me. If you want to flex your skills, just use the PF instead.

[SannaR]

Someone didn't notice the 80+ thread of just asking a way to help teach people get better. I know this isn't asking for that. Even though it might seem like a good idea you'd still get people cheesing the system. I don't know how the current feast works, but I do know it had a similar system and let's just say people would throw matches due to getting teams that were better than them yet in the same bracket. Part of why most of the time the CT raids pop up is due to people queing up so that they won't get anything but those raids. Once people know how the scoring works there would be those who'd start performing poorly just so they can go back to an "easier" skill group. Now, I'm not saying I wouldn't mind trying it out cause I would. Just to see where I'd end up and how long it would take before those who wanted an easier time or felt like they were being judged even if not by their fellow players started to play poorly until they'd get tossed into a lower bracket.

[Artemiz]

I'm starting to wish I wrote the OP differently to be honest because a lot of people are focusing on the technical aspects of SBMM and not what it is trying to achieve. Im less interested in that personally as this was only a thought experiment anyway and technical issues can all be ironed out with good game designers.

What I was really try to ask is would the game be better if the players tended to play with others of similar level, as different expectations and skill levels tend to be at the heart of a lot of the friction I see in the community.

Personally I think it would, as a professional instructor I am not in any way convinced by the argument that impatient elite players are best suited to teach new players anything. I think they would learn better in an environment they are comfortable in, at a speed they are comfortable at. You dont teach a kid how to become a racing driver by sticking them in an F1 car, you put them in a go-kart and give them time to learn alongside their peers.

Im really not too worried about players at the elite end of the spectrum, they can handle themselves and as suggested, they can use party finder. I'm more concerned about the guy who has done 6 dungeons in their entire life and is now getting chewed out in Haukke Manor for not doing wall to wall pulls. Expecting that person to use party finder is asking a bit much especially as they probably have no clue what it is at that point.

The ARR content in this game is so important for player retention and its already handicapped with the most grindy quests, the weakest voice acting and the least engaging story of the whole game. The actual content has a lot of powerlifting to do in order to hook new players in and it really doesn't help when Billy big balls starts chewing a fledgling sprout out because they want their roulette done faster.

I've leveled all my tanks exclusively in dungeons and showing flexibility and courtesy to new players is always extremely well received. This "can't give advice" issue evaporates immediately when people genuinely believe you're there to help and are happy to be patient in my experience.

[SannaR]

I'm starting to wish I wrote the OP differently to be honest because a lot of people are focusing on the technical aspects of SBMM and not what it is trying to achieve. Im less interested in that personally as this was only a thought experiment anyway and technical issues can all be ironed out with good game designers.

What I was really try to ask is would the game be better if the players tended to play with others of similar level, as different expectations and skill levels tend to be at the heart of a lot of the friction I see in the community.

Personally I think it would, as a professional instructor I am not in any way convinced by the argument that impatient elite players are best suited to teach new players anything. I think they would learn better in an environment they are comfortable in, at a speed they are comfortable at. You dont teach a kid how to become a racing driver by sticking them in an F1 car, you put them in a go-kart and give them time to learn alongside their peers.

Im really not too worried about players at the elite end of the spectrum, they can handle themselves and as suggested, they can use party finder. I'm more concerned about the guy who has done 6 dungeons in their entire life and is now getting chewed out in Haukke Manor for not doing wall to wall pulls. Expecting that person to use party finder is asking a bit much especially as they probably have no clue what it is at that point.

The ARR content in this game is so important for player retention and its already handicapped with the most grindy quests, the weakest voice acting and the least engaging story of the whole game. The actual content has a lot of powerlifting to do in order to hook new players in and it really doesn't help when Billy big balls starts chewing a fledgling sprout out because they want their roulette done faster.

I've leveled all my tanks exclusively in dungeons and showing flexibility and courtesy to new players is always extremely well received. This "can't give advice" issue evaporates immediately when people genuinely believe you're there to help and are happy to be patient in my experience.

It won't work because a lot of the NA/EU player base would rather play poorly just to avoid needing to actually play at a higher skill set even if they know they're able to do so. There's a huge part of the player base that live and will die by the whole why should I or anyone try if you can still clear said instance. While yes there are some who bully or pressure sprouts or returners. There are many who flame the crap out of veterans even if you do your best to give advice in the nicest mildest ways. Again there'll be people who if this was ever implemented who'd feel like their skill bracket is shaming them due to not being as skilled as the rest in their bracket. Then you have the problem of what skill group do you put a partial made party if everyone in that partial isn't of the same skill group?

[Artemiz]

It won't work because a lot of the NA/EU player base would rather play poorly just to avoid needing to actually play at a higher skill set even if they know they're able to do so. There's a huge part of the player base that live and will die by the whole why should I or anyone try if you can still clear said instance. While yes there are some who bully or pressure sprouts or returners. There are many who flame the crap out of veterans even if you do your best to give advice in the nicest mildest ways. Again there'll be people who if this was ever implemented who'd feel like their skill bracket is shaming them due to not being as skilled as the rest in their bracket. Then you have the problem of what skill group do you put a partial made party if everyone in that partial isn't of the same skill group?

I'm sure that's very true but where PvE SBMM would differ from PvP SBMM is with PvP the better you get the harder your experience is. One of the criticisms is if the skill brackets are opaque, which they tend to be in casual content, then players don't feel a sense of skill progression because as they get better the groups they get put in match that. You can tell in a fps game when SBMM is strong because almost everyone has a Kills/deaths ratio close to 1.0, elite pro players might get close to 2.0 but without SBMM they would be more like 5.0+
In PvE if you refuse to improve you will be left with slow parties and at least you would know you are progressing as your dungeon runs get smoother and faster.

A mixed skill level pre-made is always an issue with SBMM systems that is true, at least in PvE you could focus more on the lower end, it takes a special kind of ass to knowingly queue for content in that situation and start kicking off. In PvP you have no choice but to weigh in favour of the higher end to avoid noob bashing.

[TroySoFab]

I'm starting to wish I wrote the OP differently to be honest because a lot of people are focusing on the technical aspects of SBMM and not what it is trying to achieve. Im less interested in that personally as this was only a thought experiment anyway and technical issues can all be ironed out with good game designers.

What I was really try to ask is would the game be better if the players tended to play with others of similar level, as different expectations and skill levels tend to be at the heart of a lot of the friction I see in the community.

Personally I think it would, as a professional instructor I am not in any way convinced by the argument that impatient elite players are best suited to teach new players anything. I think they would learn better in an environment they are comfortable in, at a speed they are comfortable at. You dont teach a kid how to become a racing driver by sticking them in an F1 car, you put them in a go-kart and give them time to learn alongside their peers.

Im really not too worried about players at the elite end of the spectrum, they can handle themselves and as suggested, they can use party finder. I'm more concerned about the guy who has done 6 dungeons in their entire life and is now getting chewed out in Haukke Manor for not doing wall to wall pulls. Expecting that person to use party finder is asking a bit much especially as they probably have no clue what it is at that point.

The ARR content in this game is so important for player retention and its already handicapped with the most grindy quests, the weakest voice acting and the least engaging story of the whole game. The actual content has a lot of powerlifting to do in order to hook new players in and it really doesn't help when Billy big balls starts chewing a fledgling sprout out because they want their roulette done faster.

I've leveled all my tanks exclusively in dungeons and showing flexibility and courtesy to new players is always extremely well received. This "can't give advice" issue evaporates immediately when people genuinely believe you're there to help and are happy to be patient in my experience.

Ok, so ignoring the elephant in the room, queue times, this idea still has many flaws, and honestly comes off as you having some problem with people who raid.

The main issue here is that for the content you are requesting to have skill based matchmaking for has no real skill requirement. The only time any dungeon has ever required a disband was if a player d/c'd and the party got tired of waiting. People can literally afk for minutes at a time during boss fights, and the run will still go smoothly.

Also I don't know how this will help give newer players better advice. If people are matched based on skill, then lower skilled newer player will be matched together. If I get matched with newer players under such a system then according to the matchmaking I am just as low of skill as them, and won't be giving them any better advice.