Would skill based match making be good for FFXIV?

[Artemiz]

"Hey noob, you need to git gud!"

Vet wonders why no one takes his advice... "I was just trying to help a new player, why do I get toxic replies?"

Seen this many times, in the tales from the duty finder thread I've lost count over the years of the amount of people who post screen shots of them getting negativity from "constructive criticism" and when you read it it becomes painfully obvious why it rubbed the wrong way.

As someone who has never had a problem with this kind of thing I would urge anyone who does to focus more on the constructive and less on the criticism.

[Awha]

"Hey noob, you need to git gud!"

Vet wonders why no one takes his advice... "I was just trying to help a new player, why do I get toxic replies?"

Thing is a toxic reply to such a comment is pointless sure the comments also is pointless but we only have control over our own actions. Somene tells ya to "git gud" i would reply with "I would appreciate any tips or advice." I would ask them what feel i could improve on. In the end sure they may ignore me but at the very least i tried to be civil.

This whole fighting hostilities with more hostilities is silly imo.

[ReynTime]

This wouldn't work in SE's favor. Imagine a party of 4 bad players... Not all of them bad on purpose. They struggle with some MSQ boss and then one or more of them goes "omg i don't understand what's happening this game sucks" or something.

[Artemiz]

This wouldn't work in SE's favor. Imagine a party of 4 bad players... Not all of them bad on purpose. They struggle with some MSQ boss and then one or more of them goes "omg i don't understand what's happening this game sucks" or something.

I don't think this would be an issue for dungeons, they would just take longer. Trials it might though, a more relaxed SBMM for trials would maybe required or even echo for lower groups. I wouldn't have a problem with that in basically story content.

[Shurrikhan]

This wouldn't work in SE's favor. Imagine a party of 4 bad players... Not all of them bad on purpose. They struggle with some MSQ boss and then one or more of them goes "omg i don't understand what's happening this game sucks" or something.

If all else about this idea were a net positive, then I feel all that issue would warrant is to have reduced the BS that contributes to punishment rather than challenge:

• Have the option to display fight-specific pertinent (de)buffs and their brief descriptions (additionally) in a separate area, with that description already expanded (perhaps to auto-hide after an appropriate time in which to read it, starting long but customizable to a briefer time) so that controller users don't need to jump through 4 hoops just to tab over said (de)buff and read it.
• If a mechanic is so convoluted or inaccurately telegraphed as to be a problem, fix it. If likely to be a problem only for a small group of players, but nonetheless a significant issue for that group, perhaps add a secondary or even tertiary of more obvious or explicit telegraphs, or even a post-fight hint, which would appear after the nth wipe (probably the 1st or 2nd in most cases).
• Replace the release option and the run back to the boss with, once the last person has died, the party respawning just outside the boss area.
• Get rid of the braindead-yet-unintuitive QTE events.
• Continue to avoid mechanics by which one player's mistake (especially any in no way aidable or recoverable by others) can kill others among their party.
• Etc., etc...

[Shurrikhan]

Just don't give unsolicited advice. Kick or leave, if you feel it's necessary, I say.

It seems a pretty backwards environment we play in when kicking people without a word is considered less toxic than giving advice.

[deadman1204]

The OP should really try healing in the duty finder for awhile.

I've found a correlation between bad skill and high avg item level. If someone (often a tank) has a really high item level, they have a chance of being an amazing player. They also have a good chance of being the worst player on the team. They just expect the healer to carry them while they walk to the end, cause dailies are boring and they are too busy watching tv to push any buttons.

Far lesser geared players are way more likely to be thoughtful and trying. They don't have the experience and are trying to learn. "Veterans" who don't give a crap are actually the worst players possible in DF.

[Awha]

It seems a pretty backwards environment we play in when kicking people without a word is considered less toxic than giving advice.

Unfortunately that is the enviorment that is fostered by the mentality that tone and presentation trump everything else when it comes to discourse.

I do feel this is just a byproduct of both sides just being fsr too soft and or tired myself included.

[Artemiz]

The OP should really try healing in the duty finder for awhile.

I've found a correlation between bad skill and high avg item level. If someone (often a tank) has a really high item level, they have a chance of being an amazing player. They also have a good chance of being the worst player on the team. They just expect the healer to carry them while they walk to the end, cause dailies are boring and they are too busy watching tv to push any buttons.

Far lesser geared players are way more likely to be thoughtful and trying. They don't have the experience and are trying to learn. "Veterans" who don't give a crap are actually the worst players possible in DF.

I won't claim to be an experienced healer but I did plenty of roulette content at 50 when it was the level cap. That said, I think most of us are quite used to playing with randoms by now and we all have our problems. I tank most of the time but I won't make sweeping generalisations about healers.

Either way, the whole point of this is to try and separate you from those tanks you dislike so much, ilevel doesn't really have much to do with it.

[TroySoFab]

I'm starting to wish I wrote the OP differently to be honest because a lot of people are focusing on the technical aspects of SBMM and not what it is trying to achieve. Im less interested in that personally as this was only a thought experiment anyway and technical issues can all be ironed out with good game designers.

What I was really try to ask is would the game be better if the players tended to play with others of similar level, as different expectations and skill levels tend to be at the heart of a lot of the friction I see in the community.

Personally I think it would, as a professional instructor I am not in any way convinced by the argument that impatient elite players are best suited to teach new players anything. I think they would learn better in an environment they are comfortable in, at a speed they are comfortable at. You dont teach a kid how to become a racing driver by sticking them in an F1 car, you put them in a go-kart and give them time to learn alongside their peers.

Im really not too worried about players at the elite end of the spectrum, they can handle themselves and as suggested, they can use party finder. I'm more concerned about the guy who has done 6 dungeons in their entire life and is now getting chewed out in Haukke Manor for not doing wall to wall pulls. Expecting that person to use party finder is asking a bit much especially as they probably have no clue what it is at that point.

The ARR content in this game is so important for player retention and its already handicapped with the most grindy quests, the weakest voice acting and the least engaging story of the whole game. The actual content has a lot of powerlifting to do in order to hook new players in and it really doesn't help when Billy big balls starts chewing a fledgling sprout out because they want their roulette done faster.

I've leveled all my tanks exclusively in dungeons and showing flexibility and courtesy to new players is always extremely well received. This "can't give advice" issue evaporates immediately when people genuinely believe you're there to help and are happy to be patient in my experience.

Ok, so ignoring the elephant in the room, queue times, this idea still has many flaws, and honestly comes off as you having some problem with people who raid.

The main issue here is that for the content you are requesting to have skill based matchmaking for has no real skill requirement. The only time any dungeon has ever required a disband was if a player d/c'd and the party got tired of waiting. People can literally afk for minutes at a time during boss fights, and the run will still go smoothly.

Also I don't know how this will help give newer players better advice. If people are matched based on skill, then lower skilled newer player will be matched together. If I get matched with newer players under such a system then according to the matchmaking I am just as low of skill as them, and won't be giving them any better advice.