Would skill based match making be good for FFXIV?

[Rinhi]

You'll meet the occasional person who reacts "badly" to tips or suggestions, even very mildly stated ones like "Does anyone need a rundown of the mechanics?" after a wipe or "we should prioritize the tethered mobs, they can't be tanked" on Amaurot.

I will quickly say this is a rarity.. but they exist.

However if you're being rebuked for your help all the time.. yeah.. maybe you're not being as nice as you think?

"hey X, I've noticed you've been having troubles healing the tank with cure 1, cure 2 has a higher healing potency and is just marginally slower to cast and needs more MP than 1, plus, it's basically a straight up upgrade, and that'd make it easier to heal the tank "
"hey X, I've noticed you've been standing around doing nothing during pulls and waiting to having to heal the tank, if you pop a regen on them and use your AoE spells on more than 2 mobs, you'd help the run immensely, holy is even a tank's best mitigation tool! "
"hey Y, I've seen you're not using your mitigation skills during pulls or when you were on low health, abilities like rampart/30% mitigation/Reprisal+AL are helping a LOT against incoming damage and make it easier on the healer and are used best right after you pulled the enemies, not when they're almost dead! "

"fuk u u don't pay my sub"

I'm not sure if this is something of a primal thing, but I've seen people, or have been insulted, for trying to help, no matter how nice it was
on the other hand, I've seen toxic players insult a "bad" player and that they should do X and Y, and said player then did X and Y without complaining a few times as well
but yeah, I wonder if you've played on a primal server before, seeing as most of the people that posted about seeing this were also on primal, if I'm not misremembering

I never in any way blamed people trying to help. I clearly stated what I have experienced. I have never seen anyone trying to help get flammed but I have seen people be rude in the methods they use to try to help. This isn't in FF14 but many games over my lifetime.

"I bet the people trying to give the tips are doing in a tone that doesn't seem very pleasant."
see above, I've seen more nice people explaining abilities or mechanics get insulted by the players they're trying to help than actual a**holes being called what they are for, well, being a**holes

[Wavaryen]

"hey X, I've noticed you've been having troubles healing the tank with cure 1, cure 2 has a higher healing potency and is just marginally slower to cast and needs more MP than 1, plus, it's basically a straight up upgrade, and that'd make it easier to heal the tank "
"hey X, I've noticed you've been standing around doing nothing during pulls and waiting to having to heal the tank, if you pop a regen on them and use your AoE spells on more than 2 mobs, you'd help the run immensely, holy is even a tank's best mitigation tool! "
"hey Y, I've seen you're not using your mitigation skills during pulls or when you were on low health, abilities like rampart/30% mitigation/Reprisal+AL are helping a LOT against incoming damage and make it easier on the healer and are used best right after you pulled the enemies, not when they're almost dead! "

"fuk u u don't pay my sub"

I'm not sure if this is something of a primal thing, but I've seen people, or have been insulted, for trying to help, no matter how nice it was
on the other hand, I've seen toxic players insult a "bad" player and that they should do X and Y, and said player then did X and Y without complaining a few times as well
but yeah, I wonder if you've played on a primal server before, seeing as most of the people that posted about seeing this were also on primal, if I'm not misremembering



"I bet the people trying to give the tips are doing in a tone that doesn't seem very pleasant."
see above, I've seen more nice people explaining abilities or mechanics get insulted by the players they're trying to help than actual a**holes being called what they are for, well, being a**holes

I mean are they wrong? You don't pay, and you are doing a pug group. If they wanted help. They would ask.

[Rinhi]

I mean are they wrong? You don't pay, and you are doing a pug group. If they wanted help. They would ask.

if I wanted your input on the topic, I'd have asked
your logic, by the way, seeing as you don't pay my sub either and responded to me without asking

[Wavaryen]

if I wanted your input on the topic, I'd have asked
your logic, by the way, seeing as you don't pay my sub either and responded to me without asking

I mean you are posting on the forums so I figure you wanted the help. Clearly you need it as you don't know how to help people in the right way without them getting offended. Unlike these players. Clearly you are asking help because people don't want too listen to you in a pug. So glad I could help. If you need more help. Let me know.

[LisSquid]

I mean are they wrong? You don't pay, and you are doing a pug group. If they wanted help. They would ask.

They're not wrong, but the kick function exists and majority rules in these cases. I rarely encounter the "You don't pay my sub!" people, so it's never been something I've had to do on the regular.

However, you sign a hidden contract when you enter the duty finder. Your spot in the pug isn't guaranteed just because you used the que.

[Vyrerus]

List of examples of trying to help people help themselves

Unfortunately, Rinhi, there is no surefire way to help newbies learn their jobs. You could explain how and why another skill is so good, or that doing combos is amazing, but we really have to operate by the adage, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

All of your examples are longer than the standard tooltip for skills, and most newbies don't even read those.

In my experience, the only time newbies want and ask and are receptive to help is when they are having problems desperate enough to prevent simply clearing the content. All other times they see advice as, "Minmaxing" even if it's something as innocuous as, "Hey, uhm, could you please use your weaponskills? You've just been auto attacking this whole time."

In regards to Krojack talking to you about it, personally I think they don't get into roulettes enough. I've seen tons of people trying to help, even in the nicest way possible given guff or stonefaced silence over the years. In FFXIV.

[Rinhi]

Unfortunately, Rinhi, there is no surefire way to help newbies learn their jobs. You could explain how and why another skill is so good, or that doing combos is amazing, but we really have to operate by the adage, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

All of your examples are longer than the standard tooltip for skills, and most newbies don't even read those.

In my experience, the only time newbies want and ask and are receptive to help is when they are having problems desperate enough to prevent simply clearing the content. All other times they see advice as, "Minmaxing" even if it's something as innocuous as, "Hey, uhm, could you please use your weaponskills? You've just been auto attacking this whole time."

In regards to Krojack talking to you about it, personally I think they don't get into roulettes enough. I've seen tons of people trying to help, even in the nicest way possible given guff or stonefaced silence over the years. In FFXIV.

mhm, that's why I react allergic to the notion that it's the fault of the people trying to help because "they word it wrong" or some other excuse
like, you can read a negative tone into the most innocuous attempts at helping:
the aforementioned examples can be seen as condescending and talking down, if you do it without the niceties you're demanding, if you fluff it up like "hey, I'm not sure you've noticed/realized, but [...]" or "I've seen you do X and Y, but A and B is straight up better because etc!" can be seen as passive aggressive and stuff, you just can't win

I mean you are posting on the forums so I figure you wanted the help. Clearly you need it as you don't know how to help people in the right way without them getting offended. Unlike these players. Clearly you are asking help because people don't want too listen to you in a pug. So glad I could help. If you need more help. Let me know.

not toxic btw, not gonna dignify your pure drivel with a response anymore since you're a lost cause intent on just being a toxic prick at this point because people dared to disagree and argue with you
though, it's funny how upset you get when people use your own flawed logic against you, since you always lash out like a child in response

[Sebazy]

All of your examples are longer than the standard tooltip for skills, and most newbies don't even read those.

Big this ^

It all goes back to the simple fact that it really doesn't matter if people bother to read tooltips or not. Why should they? It's a waste of time and effort no? I can pass every duty up until Extremes by gently pressing my face on the keyboard paying particular attention to an auto follow hotkey if needed.

Not only does this game actively turn a blind eye to all but the most extreme cases of ignorance in duties, it also has a tendency to discourage and punish those that actually try? Try to help others and you'll always get those that'll just report you no matter how polite and civil you were. Get the wrong GM and you'll end up with a suspension for your efforts. Try to help yourself? Sure, just don't speak about it in game or again, you risk a suspension.

Until this is tackled, things will never improve.