"Play XIV if(cont)" and"you have a responsibility to" are not statements that coexist

[linayar]

Either way this was less about how things are since I know it will never change more so how I wish SE would put aside their dated fear against parsing and toxic behavior and just punish it when it happens instead of trying to prevent it outright.

That's the thing. You cannot expect them to put aside their "fear" because of the way things are, which means it's not dated. Even if you think it can change once SE changes first, we already have alternative games for people who want unrestricted freedom of parsing and sharing of parse.

This is why, even though jaded members of the community dislike it and try to negate it, we do have new members who, from time to time, comment on this community being nicer. It's because they're comparing to their previous experience with other games. Even if this game has elements of toxicity as well, in some ways, it is also true that it is nicer in other ways, and SE restricting the use of parse is part of that difference that shapes this community, as the "way things are" currently.

[Awha]

That's the thing. You cannot expect them to put aside their "fear" because of the way things are, which means it's not dated. Even if you think it can change once SE changes first, we already have alternative games for people who want unrestricted freedom of parsing and sharing of parse.

This is why, even though jaded members of the community dislike it and try to negate it, we do have new members who, from time to time, comment on this community being nicer. It's because they're comparing to their previous experience with other games. Even if this game has elements of toxicity as well, in some ways, it is also true that it is nicer in other ways, and SE restricting the use of parse is part of that difference that shapes this community, as the "way things are" currently.

That is the thing I am not I am not expecting them to change cause I am sure they have their reasons for why the do things the way they do.

Though just because it is the way things are or the way they wish for things to be does not mean others cannot view their stance as dated or antiquated because it is based around a fear of potential toxicity.

You are right though I know SE restricting parsing is why people think our community is nicer and while I think that is a factor I do think other factors play a more prevalent role such as the easier nature of content in the game and the relative close class balance and viability across each role due to how close each job within their respective role performs relativity close to one another.

Though in the end sure we have other games we could play but hey one can wish for things to be different even if it is a pipe dream.

[linayar]

others cannot view their stance as dated or antiquated because it is based around a fear of potential toxicity.

How is it only a potential when it still exists even now even with the restriction? You've even said that it is more upfront in WoW, so we have evidence that it's not just a potential danger, but a real one that exists to a degree in this game and more openly in other games.

[Awha]

How is it only a potential when it still exists even now even with the restriction? You've even said that it is more upfront in WoW, so we have evidence that it's not just a potential danger, but a real one that exists to a degree in this game and more openly in other games.

As you said we already have toxic behavior in this game without parsing both of the elitist jerks side of things and the hyper causal side of things. So if we already have a form of toxicity and depending on who ask the degree of severity would differ.

So how are we to know parsing would make it worse? We may have an idea based around other games but this game is still considered one of the nicer communities despite the the flaws in the community would parsing in itself tilt the scales so far that it afters the community to such an extent? We really cannot say.

Also some could even say we have toxic behavior in the game regarding how people play be it pull size or lack of dmg while healing, not maximizing burst windows all of which we really do not need a parser for. So what harm can parsing really cause at this point?

In the end SE can try to police but things will always leak through so enforcement of what they view as toxic behavior seems like a better use of time instead of trying to prevent the behavior ( and depending who you ask not doing a great job at it ) by limiting the access to a tool that could help players improve.

[strawberrycake]

And that is why we have the situation we have. The data is still there for those who want it, but there is regulation on how you present it against another player.

In the end, Data isn't toxic, how you present it is, and people are flawed, don't do away with data because people can be toxic, they'll find new ways to be toxic, instead encourage proper interactions and being considerate. Is what I said there, and the regulation of it solves nothing, the combat devs are missing out on good data to make the game better. The Players who actively use this data where it matters show massive improvement in said content once they know to use said data.

The idea of parsing and collecting data for improvement being bad is a lie spread by people scared of having to do better in alot of content they wanna do, but never wanna put the effort into. And the sad part is that SE, and by Proxy Yoshi-P wants to avoid it, when this data can make feed back so much clearer for them when it comes to making content. So instead of having to have someone translate every little thing, put raw data into a readable format, you can read through already formatted data provided by ACT and by proxy FFLogs, you can see where the players struggle, what fights were done in certain ways, and how to can avoid content being seen as braindead or boring. And in doing that the Devs no longer have to constrain their own creative impulses or freedoms worrying about those are just too ignorant to approach the content.

My general thought process is, if the art team wants you to experience a whole zone they worked so hard on, before you can fly in it, you have to get aether currents. If the Music team wants you to experience the sound effects they've worked so hard on they make sure the game makes you focus on that. SO why should the Battle Content Devs be restricted because some people can't be bothered to try a bit harder, to think a bit more. In my opinion its disrespectful to them to have to stifle themselves like this to make content "approachable".

Data should never be constrained, it should be free to use, and SE and Yoshi-P should encourage players to considerate of others with said data. And change the ToS for those who aren't and make it a very swift perma ban. That way the data can be used, and people will help, or stay quiet if they dont want to help and simply remove those players from their group.

[linayar]

So how are we to know parsing would make it worse? We may have an idea based around other games but this game is still considered one of the nicer communities despite the the flaws in the community would parsing in itself tilt the scales so far that it afters the community to such an extent? We really cannot say.

Well, if we really cannot say, then I don't see SE having any reason to risk what they have now by changing it.

My general thought process is, if the art team wants you to experience a whole zone they worked so hard on, before you can fly in it, you have to get aether currents. If the Music team wants you to experience the sound effects they've worked so hard on they make sure the game makes you focus on that. SO why should the Battle Content Devs be restricted because some people can't be bothered to try a bit harder, to think a bit more. In my opinion its disrespectful to them to have to stifle themselves like this to make content "approachable".

Art and music doesn't directly affect social interaction like battle content.

Data should never be constrained, it should be free to use, and SE and Yoshi-P should encourage players to considerate of others with said data. And change the ToS for those who aren't and make it a very swift perma ban. That way the data can be used, and people will help, or stay quiet if they dont want to help and simply remove those players from their group.

People can help or stay quiet right now. Data constraint isn't the issue when it comes to people helping other people in the game.

[kaynide]

Not really an opinion on the ongoing conversation (parse or not, nerfs etc), but wanted to offer some insight on Japanese thinking in case it might offer some light on why SE does what they do. My work involves testing and training Japanese and it’s...different from USA.

Japanese culture is very passive aggressive when compared to say, USA. There is also an overall mentality that if you just put in enough time and do your best, you will eventually get some reward. This does not necessarily mean you need to improve your best... (not that I agree with this, just how it is)

This can be seen in many game mechanics, such as iLVL requirements, echo buffs or how you basically should expect to clear all content the first time, even though you might wipe several times (outside of certain endgame hard mode stuff obviously).

Another example is the vulnerability stacks and semi instadeath mechanics. The idea is you should feel bad or frustrated for failing to dodge or dying too much and letting your team down...but in practice most people don’t really.

This is also why the nerfs on things like steps of faith. People expect to be able to clear as long as they do their personal best, and that came as a bit of a shock to many casuals.

[linayar]

Not really an opinion on the ongoing conversation (parse or not, nerfs etc), but wanted to offer some insight on Japanese thinking in case it might offer some light on why SE does what they do. My work involves testing and training Japanese and it’s...different from USA.

Japanese culture is very passive aggressive when compared to say, USA. There is also an overall mentality that if you just put in enough time and do your best, you will eventually get some reward. This does not necessarily mean you need to improve your best... (not that I agree with this, just how it is)

This can be seen in many game mechanics, such as iLVL requirements, echo buffs or how you basically should expect to clear all content the first time, even though you might wipe several times (outside of certain endgame hard mode stuff obviously).

Another example is the vulnerability stacks and semi instadeath mechanics. The idea is you should feel bad or frustrated for failing to dodge or dying too much and letting your team down...but in practice most people don’t really.

This is also why the nerfs on things like steps of faith. People expect to be able to clear as long as they do their personal best, and that came as a bit of a shock to many casuals.

I feel like this post is somehow incomplete. Like, so what exactly is the difference?

[Awha]

Well, if we really cannot say, then I don't see SE having any reason to risk what they have now by changing it.

Art and music doesn't directly affect social interaction like battle content.

People can help or stay quiet right now. Data constraint isn't the issue when it comes to people helping other people in the game.

Stepping outside ones comfort zone is hos we progress change. SE sticking with this notion that parsing is bad because people have had a bad experience in other games or have been person affected by parsing in the past is weird. Parsing itself has no inherent good or bad value. It depends on how it is used and that is where GM's come into play.

[linayar]

Stepping outside ones comfort zone is hos we progress change. SE sticking with this notion that parsing is bad because people have had a bad experience in other games or have been person affected by parsing in the past is weird. Parsing itself has no inherent good or bad value. It depends on how it is used and that is where GM's come into play.

SE is a business, so comfort zone has nothing to do with it. Why should they put more work for their GM to do?