Revelations from Patch 5.3

[Iscah]

More soul shenanigans.

Was I the only one who got an impression that G'raha's soul was not transfered, only his memories? I thought it was sad to loose another person who was 9/14, since Source G'raha is only 8/14.

Tenfold nothing

His soul definitely went into the crystal - from the scene where the other Scions use theirs, we can gather that the red part hold memories and the white part the soul. When we show the crystal to the Exarch after the battle, the white part is still dim, but it starts to glow at the last moment as he 'dies'.

More on our Sammich Making Exarch

who also baked cakes

Apparently "cake" was a pretty generous description of the final product...

First counterpart

Is this may be due to the fact, he in fact became his own soul counterpart on the first by going back in time/dimensions? I mean who WAS his First counterpart otherwise? I also wonder if by him accepting his past self they may have left out that he also needed to accept his potential future self, rather than him just becoming "augmented" code? Would that mean however, he gained "2" vs one since future self came from a calamity, and became apparently his own FIRST counterpart?

He wasn't the First counterpart of present-day Source G'raha. Being another version of the same person doesn't make him a soul counterpart automatically.

He is eight parts "future Source G'raha" and one part "future First counterpart".

Meanwhile his present-day First counterpart is simply out there somewhere in Norvrandt still, not necessarily any more recognisable than Ardbert was to us.

On the assumption that his explanation is correct and his "duplicate" soul fragments have overlaid each other rather than counting as extras, then his current status is the same as ours: standard eight parts plus our First fragment, one way or another.

If things somehow went horribly wrong and the First got rejoined right now, everyone else would receive their ninth fragment, we'd get nothing because we already collected ours, and G'raha's present-day counterpart would get joined to him but "not count" because it overlays the one he already has.

More G'raha stuff:

I thought it was weird that his soul infuses the vessel and yet he is still clearly conscious in his crystallizing body, cus after it glows he looks at us and smiles and nods. How do you do that if your soul is no longer in your body?

[...] or the last traces of his soul went into the vessel after he crystallized? I don't know.

I think "last traces still transferring over" is the simplest answer.

[Rosenstrauch]

This may be a bit premature, but in regards to the Zodiac stones...

5.3 Stuff AND 5.4/Eden Speculation

It seems likely that the Crimson stone represents Leo and the Pink stone represents Virgo, due to both resembling simplified versions of their respective constellations. With this in mind, it strikes me as interesting that the Pink stone seems to reflect the stone's owner undergoing the tempering process.

So here's my wild speculation about 5.4/Eden:

I think Altima will be the third or final boss of the final Eden wing. We'll also learn her real name: Gaia. The Gaia we've been running with in Eden's Verse is her First-bound fragment. This is the reason Gaia can call upon the "power of darkness", ie: tearing open void gates, using time magic, summoning a cool hammer, etc. Gaia's near-total amnesia, as well as her sudden appearance in the Empty after we reawakened Eden, is directly related to this. And then there's this exchange, post-E7/pre-E8:

Ryne
I'm glad you're back to your usual self, but how are you feeling?
Gaia
Much better now, but something is still bothering me. The faerie spoke to me in a dream, and a stream of memories rushed through my mind. I don't recall anything like this happening before, and I'm not sure what it all means.
Ryne
What sort of memories?
Gaia
I can't make any sense of them. They were only brief flashes, seen through someone else's eyes. At least, that's what it felt like.

So, why the third/final boss, instead of specifically one or the other? 'cause in Final Fantasy 8, the ultimate form of the final boss resembles two women fused together by their hips/legs: If Altima is the third boss, then I fully suspect something resembling this form will be the final boss. If Altima is the final boss, then this form will be Savage-exclusive.

As for why Altima specifically, aside from the Virgo speculation? It's actually kind of silly: Altima was a mistranslated name for Ultima back when Final Fantasy Tactics was released. Ultima is a series staple, from the spell to the Ivalice Scion of Light... and the villain of Final Fantasy 8, Ultim(eci)a.

As for the other two bosses, we'll be seeing Erebos, the mentioned but largely unseen voidsent from E2, and Griever. I don't believe Griever will be a Voidsent, however. Rather, I think he'll be an Astral/Dark primal, possibly summoned with Gaia herself serving as its vessel. Also, it will be a primal of Ryne, Gaia, and the WoL's own design. The Lion motif will be Ryne's doing, based on Thancred and his Gunblade, the Lionheart.

[MrThinker]

So here's my wild speculation about 5.4/Eden:

I think Altima will be the third or final boss of the final Eden wing. We'll also learn her real name: Gaia. The Gaia we've been running with in Eden's Verse is her First-bound fragment. This is the reason Gaia can call upon the "power of darkness", ie: tearing open void gates, using time magic, summoning a cool hammer, etc. Gaia's near-total amnesia, as well as her sudden appearance in the Empty after we reawakened Eden, is directly related to this. And then there's this exchange, post-E7/pre-E8:



So, why the third/final boss, instead of specifically one or the other? 'cause in Final Fantasy 8, the ultimate form of the final boss resembles two women fused together by their hips/legs: If Altima is the third boss, then I fully suspect something resembling this form will be the final boss. If Altima is the final boss, then this form will be Savage-exclusive.

As for why Altima specifically, aside from the Virgo speculation? It's actually kind of silly: Altima was a mistranslated name for Ultima back when Final Fantasy Tactics was released. Ultima is a series staple, from the spell to the Ivalice Scion of Light... and the villain of Final Fantasy 8, Ultim(eci)a.

As for the other two bosses, we'll be seeing Erebos, the mentioned but largely unseen voidsent from E2, and Griever. I don't believe Griever will be a Voidsent, however. Rather, I think he'll be an Astral/Dark primal, possibly summoned with Gaia herself serving as its vessel. Also, it will be a primal of Ryne, Gaia, and the WoL's own design. The Lion motif will be Ryne's doing, based on Thancred and his Gunblade, the Lionheart.

Is it weird that I also theorized that this might also be the case? Maybe it's just because of the Ancient/Pseudo greek name connection, but I always had the thought that 'Gaia' was the shard of one of the Overlords.

[Enkidoh]

This may be a bit premature, but in regards to the Zodiac stones...

5.3 Stuff AND 5.4/Eden Speculation

It seems likely that the Crimson stone represents Leo and the Pink stone represents Virgo, due to both resembling simplified versions of their respective constellations. With this in mind, it strikes me as interesting that the Pink stone seems to reflect the stone's owner undergoing the tempering process.

So here's my wild speculation about 5.4/Eden:

I think Altima will be the third or final boss of the final Eden wing. We'll also learn her real name: Gaia. The Gaia we've been running with in Eden's Verse is her First-bound fragment. This is the reason Gaia can call upon the "power of darkness", ie: tearing open void gates, using time magic, summoning a cool hammer, etc. Gaia's near-total amnesia, as well as her sudden appearance in the Empty after we reawakened Eden, is directly related to this. And then there's this exchange, post-E7/pre-E8:



So, why the third/final boss, instead of specifically one or the other? 'cause in Final Fantasy 8, the ultimate form of the final boss resembles two women fused together by their hips/legs: If Altima is the third boss, then I fully suspect something resembling this form will be the final boss. If Altima is the final boss, then this form will be Savage-exclusive.

As for why Altima specifically, aside from the Virgo speculation? It's actually kind of silly: Altima was a mistranslated name for Ultima back when Final Fantasy Tactics was released. Ultima is a series staple, from the spell to the Ivalice Scion of Light... and the villain of Final Fantasy 8, Ultim(eci)a.

As for the other two bosses, we'll be seeing Erebos, the mentioned but largely unseen voidsent from E2, and Griever. I don't believe Griever will be a Voidsent, however. Rather, I think he'll be an Astral/Dark primal, possibly summoned with Gaia herself serving as its vessel. Also, it will be a primal of Ryne, Gaia, and the WoL's own design. The Lion motif will be Ryne's doing, based on Thancred and his Gunblade, the Lionheart.

Nice theory, but I doubt it would be Altima - because Altima is already in the game's lore as an Ascian (she appeared briefly with the other Ascians in a cutscene in the Chrysallis back in the patch 2.3 story, and hasn't been heard from since).

Griever or something with Ultimecia's name would be a better fit for Eden's final boss in keeping with the FFVIII-referencing... but something tells me SE are going to come completely out of left field with something unexpected, like Eden's fal'cie form from FFXIII (it would be appropriate). I guess we'll find out either way.

[Rosenstrauch]

Nice theory, but I doubt it would be Altima - because Altima is already in the game's lore as an Ascian

I am fully aware of that. It's the basis of my speculation, in fact.

[Vyrerus]

Actually, I read in an interview of the devs, that Lahabrea had not died to Thordans striking blow, but when Estinien had pierced Nidhoggs eye afterwards. In other words, he was still alive until the end of Stormblood. Not that it matters anymore.

Could you link that interview, because that makes very little sense. If that were the case, then why wouldn't Elidibus help him out of Nidhogg's right eye, and then help restore him to a proper body?

[MrThinker]

I am fully aware of that. It's the basis of my speculation, in fact.

I believe Enkidoh is saying that since there is already an Altima it wouldn't make sense for Gaia to be woken up as a new Altima... unless Altima was one of the overlords Gaius offed.

I also have a further crackpot (as in super highly unlikely) theory:

Gaia is indeed a shard of Altima, however Altima the Ascian is playing puppeteer with their sundered fragment. Altima is going to be revealed to have been searching for their soul shards and forcibly merging with them to try and make herself unsundered w/o having gone through Rejoinings.

Regardless, if Eden turns out to be completely unrelated to the Ascians, I am going to be unimpressed.

EDIT:

Could you link that interview, because that makes very little sense. If that were the case, then why wouldn't Elidibus help him out of Nidhogg's right eye, and then help restore him to a proper body?

I actually think that was a headcanon/hypothesis put forward by people that had little evidence backing it up.

[Vyrerus]

That's what I thought Rosenstrauch was basically going for, and I like that theory. The "fairy" from E7 basically being an advanced Crystal of Darkness or something.

[Rosenstrauch]

I believe Enkidoh is saying that since there is already an Altima it wouldn't make sense for Gaia to be woken up as a new Altima... unless Altima was one of the overlords Gaius offed.

I also have a further crackpot (as in super highly unlikely) theory:

Gaia is indeed a shard of Altima, however Altima the Ascian is playing puppeteer with their sundered fragment. Altima is going to be revealed to have been searching for their soul shards and forcibly merging with them to try and make herself unsundered w/o having gone through Rejoinings.

Regardless, if Eden turns out to be completely unrelated to the Ascians, I am going to be unimpressed.

That makes more sense than "Altima the Ascian can't be in the Eden plot because the name Altima is already being used by Altima the Ascian", but I still don't see it as a deal breaker. As far as I'm concerned, Altima doesn't need to be dead to try and do... whatever it is the Idol of Darkness did to Gaia that awakened her to memories that weren't her own. And I don't necessarily see it as an attempt to raise up a new Altima, either. Rather, I see it as an attempt to force Gaia back into being the Voidwalker—her puppet, in other words.

In fact, I think the timeline of Altima's intervention would be as follows:

Eden 2:

Gaia, under significant brainwashing from Altima, is sent to stop Ryne and co. from using Eden. If she had succeeded, the First would still be mostly primed for Rejoining.

Eden 7:

Gaia's emotional vulnerability is taken advantage of by Altima, who is trying to puppeteer her in order to, once again, stop Ryne and co. from using Eden. At this point Elidibus is still alive and the Elements haven't all been restored to the Empty, so she still has time to act.

Eden 9-12:

Elidibus is dead, and any hope for reclaiming her world and people is gone. At this point she will finally stop acting from afar and will confront the party, seizing Gaia in a weakened state post-Griever fight. At this point she's acting out of despair and anger, and wants to use Eden to turn the First, and potentially other Reflections and maybe even the Source, into Voids. Light or Dark, it doesn't matter so long as she can deny us our worlds.

That's what I thought Rosenstrauch was basically going for, and I like that theory. The "fairy" from E7 basically being an advanced Crystal of Darkness or something.

That is pretty much what I was going for, yeah.

[Saix027]

I believe Enkidoh is saying that since there is already an Altima it wouldn't make sense for Gaia to be woken up as a new Altima... unless Altima was one of the overlords Gaius offed.

I also have a further crackpot (as in super highly unlikely) theory:

Gaia is indeed a shard of Altima, however Altima the Ascian is playing puppeteer with their sundered fragment. Altima is going to be revealed to have been searching for their soul shards and forcibly merging with them to try and make herself unsundered w/o having gone through Rejoinings.

Regardless, if Eden turns out to be completely unrelated to the Ascians, I am going to be unimpressed.

EDIT:


I actually think that was a headcanon/hypothesis put forward by people that had little evidence backing it up.

Actually it could i mean, what is stopping anyone from using a name twice, the names still could be old tales or so and exist, i mean we literally have actually two bosses of the same name, Haukke Manor Hard mode endboss and the Omega Delta 3 boss, both are named Halicarnassus.