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  1. #281
    Player
    Lauront's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Amaurot
    Posts
    4,449
    Character
    Tristain Archambeau
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrerus View Post
    Could you link that interview, because that makes very little sense. If that were the case, then why wouldn't Elidibus help him out of Nidhogg's right eye, and then help restore him to a proper body?
    It's here.

    Toward the end of Shadowbringers, players defeat Hades without imprisoning him in the White Auracite. But Lahabrea was defeated in a similar way, and eventually returned. Is Hades is done for good?

    NI: With Lahabrea, he wasn’t literally put into the White Auracite. But he was absorbed into the dragon’s eye, and Estinien pierced it. Although he wasn’t imprisoned in the White Auracite, you can technically say he’s in the same situation.

    When Hades revealed his true form, and his soul was there, we didn’t capture it in the White Auracite. He was held down and pierced with a stake, basically. He was captured and not able to move at that point, and then the Warrior of Light struck him with the blow, so it is believed that Hades has been completely destroyed.
    Whether it makes sense or not (and we can see just how easily they can try force things to make sense, whether the end result is satisfactory, or not), the wording confirms what that poster said. Much the same with Emet-Selch, with the "it is believed". Perhaps there is something to the headcanon that souls really are indestructible, white auracite or not, and all that happens is that the soul is forced back into the Lifestream for rebirth; Lahabrea's was trapped in the eyes at the time. To me the way this reads is that they're being non-committal.
    (6)

  2. #282
    Player
    Alleo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    4,730
    Character
    Light Khah
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 91
    Quote Originally Posted by Alleluia View Post
    More G'raha stuff:

    if you talk to him in Rising Stones and ask how he's faring, he talks about his soul density and how its denser than he was expecting, and he postulates that its b/c he'd undergone an additional rejoining in the 8th umbral timeline. So he's definitely saying his soul came over.

    I thought it was weird that his soul infuses the vessel and yet he is still clearly conscious in his crystallizing body, cus after it glows he looks at us and smiles and nods. How do you do that if your soul is no longer in your body?

    So I was very confused about why Ryne was actually smiling in the end of that scene, especially when the WoL looks sad. I thought he'd died and we had a SOMA situation. Which, to be fair, we still might, I suppose? Either that, or the last traces of his soul went into the vessel after he crystallized? I don't know.
    About the vessel part

    I wondered about it too. And not only that..but he has transported his memories in there quite some time until he fully went into it..so how was he still remembering stuff? The same with the scions. Shouldnt giving something your memories not kinda take them away from you? Or is this just like coping them?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lauront View Post
    It's here.

    Whether it makes sense or not (and we can see just how easily they can try force things to make sense, whether the end result is satisfactory, or not), the wording confirms what that poster said. Much the same with Emet-Selch, with the "it is believed". Perhaps there is something to the headcanon that souls really are indestructible, white auracite or not, and all that happens is that the soul is forced back into the Lifestream for rebirth; Lahabrea's was trapped in the eyes at the time. To me the way this reads is that they're being non-committal.
    So Elidibus "emotional" reaction towards the death of the other two unsundered barely means anything if seemingly Lahabrea survived that long..Did none of the unsundered at least thought to check out the eye?
    (1)
    Last edited by Alleo; 08-17-2020 at 11:00 PM.

  3. #283
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,034
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    About the vessel:

    Quote Originally Posted by Alleo View Post
    I wondered about it too. And not only that..but he has transported his memories in there quite some time until he fully went into it..so how was he still remembering stuff? The same with the scions. Shouldnt giving something your memories not kinda take them away from you? Or is this just like coping them?
    It certainly seems that they're creating a copy of the memories rather than a direct transfer. For definite proof, there's the Exarch's farewell to Lyna where he talks about his memories of her, so he's clearly still in possession of them even after he's placed them in the crystal.

    Edit to add: I suppose it's a bit like job stones, however they work exactly. The user acquires knowledge from the stone without removing it from the permanent record, and imprints their own knowledge on it presumably without losing it themself.
    (3)
    Last edited by Iscah; 08-18-2020 at 02:17 AM.

  4. #284
    Player
    Fenral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,174
    Character
    W'fharl Tia
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Soul/memory stuff
    Heaven-on-High seems to imply that Salina was still quite busy after giving her memories to Desch, so I think we can infer that memories "transferred" into Royal Blood are, in fact, copied like information.

    It's often misunderstood in sci-fi and the like (especially anime), but information can't truly be moved, only copied. In analog terms, if you read a book, or even memorize it, the book still exists for someone else to read, unless you destroy it after (or while reading, if you're into that). A "move" operation in a file system is really just a copy followed by a delete (or a change of address in a file table, in which case the information itself stays in one place). You could move a hard-drive, or a book, without reading it, but that wouldn't actually change the location of the information within, just the location of the container. In either scenario, "moving" information into another container such that it exists only in the new container would require additional effort be made in order to alter the original container in some way.

    By this logic, it would have been weirder if the Exarch had started forgetting stuff while prepping his vessel.
    (3)
    あっきれた。

  5. #285
    Player
    LineageRazor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,822
    Character
    Lineage Razor
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 90
    WAY late to the party, but I wanted to present my thoughts on the latest patch stuff:

    MSQ:

    Lots of plusses and minuses on the climax of the Ascian conflict (excluding stray Ascians like not!Asahi, who undoubtedly will continue to be a problem). I'm glad that they finally addressed Elidibus's odd shift in focus toward trying to assassinate the Warrior of Light. Basically, he came to the gradual realization that we were a problem he couldn't ignore, rather than a tool he could safely use. His shift from "must maintain the balance" to "must kill the WoL at all costs" was jarring to me, and it's good to have that closure.

    His methods for doing so were really puzzling, though, until he revealed that he was a Primal that was "powered" by a desire for salvation. That explains why he supercharged the First with a overdose of Warriors of Light - they essentially acted unknowingly as priests, guiding the people in prayers to sustain and empower him. It was also cool how he co-opted the Exarch's memory core to supercharge that effort with partial summonings from other shards, stripping the desire to vanquish the darkness from innumerable other Warriors of Light. (It does make me wonder whether that partial summoning will have consequences - have those unfortunate WoL's been partially desouled, and are no longer driven to save others? Or did the removed portion return after the battle was over?)

    The "teasers" for jobs was a cool touch (Chemist for the Mystel girl, and Thief, Necromancer, and Berserker for the dungeon bosses). I don't know if this means that there's any hope we'll get them (still no Geomancer, after all), but if it does, I really want to see Thief. It's one of the most classic of classic FF jobs - the only one of the originals that didn't get a proper treatment in this game. (No, Rogue doesn't count. Even if it powers up to Ninja, just like the original Thief did.)

    Elidibus's incarnation as the Warrior of Light was a neat touch, and nicely foreshadowed by the image in the book we looked at earlier in the story. While I don't think it was directly stated, I sort of got the impression that Elidibus actually WAS the original Warrior of Light depicted - he didn't just take his form for the final conflict. He mentioned that he sometimes worked toward the Ascians' goals, and sometimes against, and propping up a beacon of hope like the Warrior of Light would be a good way to fuel both himself and Zodiark, as the world slowly forgot about them.

    G'raha's sacrifice was dampened a bit by the fact that we knew he had already backed himself up in the crystal - but, at the same time, knowledge of it was necessary to properly explain how Elidibus was summoning all those soul fragments, so hiding the fact that he'd done so would have been awkward.

    Also, on the topic of G'raha's resurrection. I was at first skeeved by the fact they were planning on merging him with G'raha on the Source without consulting that G'raha first. This was mollified a bit when I realized that the Exarch would have had the ENTIRETY of G'raha's emotions, experiences, and memories up through Source-G'raha's current state. If anyone would know how Source-G'raha would feel about the merger, it was the Exarch, and he's not the sort to impose his will on the unwiling. So, if the Exarch feels G'raha would be cool with it, then he's likely right.

    However, they weren't just discussing a merger. They mentioned that the merger could potentially fail, which would lead to the deaths of BOTH G'rahas. So, they were playing with the LIFE of a person who had no opportunity to object. Again, Exarch would know best whether G'raha would be willing to take that risk, I suppose.

    Anyway, cute scene at the end with G'raha officially joinning the Scions. And Alisae totes jelly.

    As far as Zodiark and Hydaelyn go, there's still clearly more to the story. We still know nothing about the origin of the Sound that destroyed the Ancients. We also don't know why Elidibus split off from Zodiark (Y'shtola specifically voices this puzzle, but Elidibus doesn't explain himself to her). I'm guessing that there's still more to learn, and that these things will be revealed as Zenos and not!Asahi continue their shenanigans.

    And, speaking of Zenos, he's back in charge of Garlemald? For some reason? And once again, slaughters countless hapless Garleans in order to reach the throne. (Did he really need to? I mean, he's the crown prince! Can't he just ask to come in?) And not!Asahi performed a flippant monologue which reminded me very much of Emet Selch's flippant monologue at the end of Stormblood (thank goodness he turned out to be more of an interesting character than I expected from that little scene).

    I wonder if anyone will piece together the scene of carnage and notice how similar it is to the scene of carnage that happened when Varis was assassinated, and maybe put two and two together. Just maybe, it was Zenos, and not Gaius/Estinien who did the deed?

    It doesn't much look as though Zenos and not!Asahi are working together, so much as they're working... near each other? Still, interesting to see that some soul-fragment Ascians are just plain not on board with the Ascian agenda.


    Sorrow of Werlyt:

    I protest the white-haired Au Ra piloting the Sapphire Weapon. But at least the blue-haired one was SUPPOSED to be the pilot, so I guess SOMEONE in the Empire has the proper knowledge of aesthetics.

    I also rolled my eyes at the pilot engaging the super-suicide system pretty much the moment we appeared on the scene - but this made more sense in retrospect when he talks about being a poor pilot in the Echo flashback. In that case, it was actually a really good strategic decision; if victory was to be had, it would be due to the synchronization.

    Scumbag Legatus is a scumbag. The three Au Ra children he has in his room - I wonder if they're the "insurance" he's using to ensure that the Au Ra pilots throw their lives away on schedule. The scene where he calls the green-haired Au Ra pilot girl into the room would have had really creepily suggestive vibes - if not for the fact that he'd already suited up in his Legatus armor. It'd be pretty silly to do that, if he planned on some coercive hanky-panky. So, he probably has some other plan for her, likely setting her up for Emerald Weapon to be our Trial for the next patch.

    Speaking of which, I was hopeful that Sapphire was going to be another Trial battle, but alas, it was not to be. At least they did not (as one NPC suggests) blow its head of with a giant cannon. We DO get to fight it, albiet in a very unusual manner.

    Given that Emerald and Ruby were the two "optional" weapons in FFVII, and we've already had Ruby for a trial battle, I think it's likely we'll get Emerald, as a trial battle, as well. We'll see.


    YoRHa:

    2B finally makes her appearance, and 2P turns out to be the bad guy. So, 9S's "villainy" in the first chapter is all a misunderstanding. (Still kind of a dick move to mindjack all those poor Machine Lifeforms, many of whom were begging not to be sacrificed.)

    And... 2P's face-heel turn is kind of a weak twist, to be honest. Still not seeing the Yoko Taro genius we're all expecting.

    Was also disappointed by few to no Machine Lifeforms this time around. A few scattered dead ones at the start. None of the bosses had the MLF aesthetic that pleased me greatly in the first raid.

    The giant ball of white android women was creepy-cool, though I was a bit disappointed that it didn't "hatch" a boss (ala Adam's creation in the original game). It evolved into giant white android woman composed of white android women instead. Which was okay, I guess.

    Just as in the first raid, no real questions were answered, since 2B is just as in the dark as we are. We still don't know why any of these guys are here, or why they're fighting each other, or what they plan to do if they win. It's even still possible for 2B and 9S to be the bad guys after all! They're saving an awful lot of revelations for the third segment.

    All in all, disappointed with this segment. At least we got to explore the dungeon afterwards, a feature I very much appreciate!


    Dwarf tribe:

    Not a lot to say here; helping the dwarves to build tanks. A most laudable goal. With any luck, we'll get a nice cutscene where they send them against the Giant of Babil, but I'm not holding my breath for that.

    The addition of a dwarf from the opposing villiage was great; the banter between her and the other Dwarves is great, in how she's all competative with them, but they all just love her ideas and refuse to argue or compete at all.

    The many, many, many allusions to the hard-drinking habits of Dwarves is amusing, and it's pretty natural that they turned to Ethenol for a source of fuel (and also booze).


    New Collectables NPC:

    Considering I'm a crafter, I spend far too little time in the Firmament. As such, I was surprised to discover a bunch of sidequests there; not sure whether they're freshly added or they've been around a patch and I just haven't noticed. Anyway, interesting to see that NPCs are occupying the housing there - which makes sense (we're supposed to be repairing the homes of the poor, lost souls in the Brume), but DOES throw a bit of a wrench into the theory that this is going to be our new housing district. Maybe we'll be given other wards, while a single ward is reserved for NPCs?

    Anyway, the idea of a dragonlet learning to craft and gather is a cute one, and I like the idea that stodgy older dragons are distainful of the idea. I hope that Ehil Tou is able to impress them, in due time. I'd imagine that youth of dragon society have a MUCH harder time overturning tradition than ephemerals such as humans do, and even for us it's hardly a walk in the park!
    (3)

  6. #286
    Player
    Katie_Kitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    952
    Character
    Princess Whiskers
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by LineageRazor View Post
    We also don't know why Elidibus split off from Zodiark (Y'shtola specifically voices this puzzle, but Elidibus doesn't explain himself to her)
    We do and he does at the end. He split off from Zodiark in order to attempt reconciliation between the two factions arguing over the fate of the star (Zodiark vs Hydaelyn).
    (6)

  7. #287
    Player
    Rhivryn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    64
    Character
    Rhivryn Shaw
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    MSQ thoughts (assuming you did ALL the role quest lines:

    I was disappointed Cyella didn't show up to join in the fight against Elidibus considering she was like, 'He needs to be dealt with.' AND if you talk to her afterwards, while happy justice was served, DOESN'T COME BACK TO THE SOURCE WITH YOU. Please Square, she was my favorite part of ShB, why is she sticking around Norvrandt, she could be so much more useful as a Scion. T-T
    I realize it was a long shot considering what it took to even find out the truth about her that most players don't even know who she is, so something so pivotal to the story would not occur, but I feel like she was shafted as a character after introducing one of the coolest characters ever, and then just leaving her there to do nothing.


    How awesome would it have been to have the WoL vs the Shadowkeeper, even if for a brief moment?

    She's already a world hopper, let her come to the Source, Square, PLEASE.
    (2)

  8. #288
    Player
    BlitzAceRush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    471
    Character
    Xeorran Kalia'shearra
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhivryn View Post
    MSQ thoughts (assuming you did ALL the role quest lines:

    I was disappointed Cyella didn't show up to join in the fight against Elidibus considering she was like, 'He needs to be dealt with.' AND if you talk to her afterwards, while happy justice was served, DOESN'T COME BACK TO THE SOURCE WITH YOU. Please Square, she was my favorite part of ShB, why is she sticking around Norvrandt, she could be so much more useful as a Scion. T-T
    I realize it was a long shot considering what it took to even find out the truth about her that most players don't even know who she is, so something so pivotal to the story would not occur, but I feel like she was shafted as a character after introducing one of the coolest characters ever, and then just leaving her there to do nothing.


    How awesome would it have been to have the WoL vs the Shadowkeeper, even if for a brief moment?

    She's already a world hopper, let her come to the Source, Square, PLEASE.
    Become ten characters...

    While I would love to see her appear on the source at some point, I'm pretty sure the reason she doesn't show up in the dungeon or against Elidibus isn't just due to most not having any idea who she is based on her requirements for learning the truth, but more due to she simply can't fight anymore.
    When she dresses up and tried to get you to slay her she admits after she could barely hold up her sword and just standing there in her old armour exhausted her, her days of battle seem all but spent.
    (8)

  9. #289
    Player
    Rhivryn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    64
    Character
    Rhivryn Shaw
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush View Post
    Become ten characters...

    While I would love to see her appear on the source at some point, I'm pretty sure the reason she doesn't show up in the dungeon or against Elidibus isn't just due to most not having any idea who she is based on her requirements for learning the truth, but more due to she simply can't fight anymore.
    When she dresses up and tried to get you to slay her she admits after she could barely hold up her sword and just standing there in her old armour exhausted her, her days of battle seem all but spent.
    ten characters
    we can fix her we have the technology T-T (looks at the Crystal Tower)
    I'll probably end doing art of her in her iconic armor facing down Elidibus as WoL to get my fix of what she deserves.
    (0)

  10. #290
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,034
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Re. Cyella
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhivryn View Post
    MSQ thoughts (assuming you did ALL the role quest lines:

    I was disappointed Cyella didn't show up to join in the fight against Elidibus considering she was like, 'He needs to be dealt with.' AND if you talk to her afterwards, while happy justice was served, DOESN'T COME BACK TO THE SOURCE WITH YOU. Please Square, she was my favorite part of ShB, why is she sticking around Norvrandt, she could be so much more useful as a Scion. T-T
    I realize it was a long shot considering what it took to even find out the truth about her that most players don't even know who she is, so something so pivotal to the story would not occur, but I feel like she was shafted as a character after introducing one of the coolest characters ever, and then just leaving her there to do nothing.


    How awesome would it have been to have the WoL vs the Shadowkeeper, even if for a brief moment?

    She's already a world hopper, let her come to the Source, Square, PLEASE.
    She's not from the Source to begin with, and she's not a "world hopper". Elidibus brought her to the First.

    Her role now is to help spread the true story of the Warriors of Light and how they tried to prevent the Flood.
    (7)

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