[SPOILERS] The Convocation of Fourteen

[Delily]

Based on how Emet-Selch saw us as an ascian before the final fight, I think implication is that we are that member. If so, that would mean to me that we were crucial to Hydaelyn’s summoning and as such she choose us as Her champion.

[Quipsy]

This is just a little thing, but there is an Amaurotine standing in front of a pillar outside of the Capitol that says "You... I know... nevermind" implying that they recognize you. One could infer that this means whoever you were frequented the Capitol, which would make sense if the WoL/D's past self was, indeed, the 14th. This is the only one aside from Hythlodaeus who shows this kind of insight.

[Rannie]

Or maybe our color is that great that he was able to see at least a bit of it. Emet is also able to see colors (but strangely never mentioned ours) and it could just be that being a shade gave him the ability to see more. Or maybe he was already that good while he was alive.

We learned that the Ancient ones only needed a slight loss of attention and their concept changes. Hythlo did point out that it could have simply been Emet wondering in his mind if he might have seen through this illusion and without wanting to he gave him the ability to exactly do that.

About the talk between him and us, I watched it again in german:

- He does say that he and Emet knew each other quite well
- He also says that there were 14th people in the convocation but one left
- He says to our character that we have a very special color in our aura which can be quite recognized. Also he then asked if there is somebody else with us and then says something along side of: Well that action fits her.
- In the german version he does not call us at any time our old new friends. In his last line he calls us "Mein Kind" which means "my child", which sounded more like an elder talking to someone younger. Its interesting how different the dialogue can be in some ways.

And this is why I'd really love to see the translations of the whole scene in all the languages *sigh* why do they always do this... started out with them toning down Hauchefant then next the make middy almost look like a villian because Yoshi-P said he talked to damn much .... thank you for the summary I do appreciate it ^_^

[Alleo]

And this is why I'd really love to see the translations of the whole scene in all the languages *sigh* why do they always do this... started out with them toning down Hauchefant then next the make middy almost look like a villian because Yoshi-P said he talked to damn much .... thank you for the summary I do appreciate it ^_^

Your welcome. I always like to see different languages because sometimes one translation left out something or said it quite different which could lead to different interpretations. At the same time playing the game in german and then watching an english streamer sometimes makes me confuse information...like I was quite sure that they somewhere mentioned that they wanted to kill the future generation while at least in the german one he says that they wanted to harness new life and take this new life and that the future should be in the hands of the new life. Which can mean quite alot..(even though would you say that about animals?)

This is just a little thing, but there is an Amaurotine standing in front of a pillar outside of the Capitol that says "You... I know... nevermind" implying that they recognize you. One could infer that this means whoever you were frequented the Capitol, which would make sense if the WoL/D's past self was, indeed, the 14th. This is the only one aside from Hythlodaeus who shows this kind of insight.

Nice find! But that also makes me wonder...were they simply not programmed to recognize different races? Because they do "see" that we are quite small thus should be children..but not once do they mention our or the scions races..I wonder if that was just simply because Emet was not giving them that ability or is this a hint that maybe the races exited at that time already....heck maybe they choose to wear these robes to conceil the race thus decrease any chance of racism? (Pure speculation btw)

[Rannie]

Yeah in english the whole portion was they wanted to let the new life that was created grow and flourish then use it as the sacrifice to zodiark. Possibly even the animals since life doesn't wholly pertain to mankind. In English it wasn't specified a hythlodaeus just said myriads of tiny life that was created after the second half of the ancients where sacrficed.

[Alleo]

Yeah in english the whole portion was they wanted to let the new life that was created grow and flourish then use it as the sacrifice to zodiark. Possibly even the animals since life doesn't wholly pertain to mankind. In English it wasn't specified a hythlodaeus just said myriads of tiny life that was created after the second half of the ancients where sacrficed.

So its similar in the english one. So maybe its kinda both: One part of the sacrifice would be new sentient life and another part the creatures they created? Because if its only creatures I have a hard time believing that they would care that much? Seeing how alot of those animals we have ingame are a creation of them anyway and how they even used some of those creatures to turn them into crystal...or at least use their aether for that. Also the sentence about leaving the future of the planet in the hand of those lifes would imo make more sense if its sentient life.

Anyway I really wonder if we ever get the view of the 14th. Would be interesting to see why he/she was the only one against it and what he/she planned to do instead.

[Rannie]

Agreed and like I said in the other post I'd really love for our WoL to start getting visions of their original life maybe not to completely give away who we are but to give us little nudges. That would be so awesome. We have over half our soul back and I can see it being possible since memory can travel with the soul. The ascians being a prime example and Lahabrea being the biggest with "Invasion of the body snatcher"

Aaaaannnd now I just had a mental image of Lahabrea walking into a store called Bodies R Us and trying on different humans.... >.<

Lahabrea: hn too tall... tooo short.... Juuuuuust right.

[QT_Melon]

It would be interesting to see a translation of the original Japanese dialog there; that would maybe make it clearer, since things do change when they localize the game (see Hauche for details).

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...IyjzEYdvw/edit

？？？？ : ……隣、いいかな。
...May I sit next to you?
？？？？ : キミは、外の時間を生きている子だね。
You come from outside our time, I see.
さては、エメトセルクを追ってきたのかな？
Have you come in search of Emet-Selch?
？？？？ : おっと、警戒は不要だよ。
Oh, no need for alarm.
ワタシはただの影、ここに在って無いものだ。
I am but a shade, of no real substance.
ヒュトロダエウス : 名を、ヒュトロダエウスという……そう認識している。
My name is Hythlodaeus… or so I can recall.
ここが、ある時間を写し取っただけの幻影都市だともね。
This is but an illusion, a snapshot of the past of this city.
ヒュトロダエウス : ほかの影たちは、それに気づいていないみたいだけれど……
It would seem as though the other shades are not aware of it...
大方、エメトセルクがワタシを再現するときに、
雑念でも混じったのではないかな。
Most likely, Emet-Selch allowed a few stray thoughts to distract him while he was recreating me.
ヒュトロダエウス : 「ヒュトロダエウスだったら、真実を見抜くだろう」とかね。
"Hythlodaeus would surely realize the truth", he thought.
ワタシたちは、これでも良い友人同士だったから……。
We were that close as friends, after all...
ヒュトロダエウス : とはいえ、結局のところはほかと同じ、
思い出のアーモロートを彩るだけの、にぎやかしにすぎないよ。
Even so, I am no more alive than the rest of Amaurot he brought forth from his memories.
ふいに湧いた泡のように、不確かで脆いものさ。
Weak and ephemeral, like foam on the waves.
ヒュトロダエウス : ……ここまで来ているキミなら、知っているかな。
...If you have come this far, then you know, do you not?
ワタシたちは、「今日」のあと、大きな災厄に見舞われるんだ。
Of the calamity that looms over us after "today".
ヒュトロダエウス : 最初、局地的にはじまったその災厄は、
やがて星全体におよび、正真正銘の終末と化した。
It began from the earth, and would eventually grow to encompass the entire planet, spelling out true ruin.
ヒュトロダエウス : 十四人委員会……まあそのときには十三人になってたんだけど、
ともかく彼らは、「星の意志」を創ることで綻びた理を直し、
災厄を鎮めようとしたんだ。
The Council of Fourteen… well, I suppose they were only Thirteen by then, decided to bring into existence the "Will of the Planet", and by doing so suppress the calamity.
ヒュトロダエウス : けれど、それほどの創造には、とても大きな力がいる……。
But such a massive act of creation required an equally large amount of aether...
ヒュトロダエウス : だから、生き残った人類のうち、
約半数が自分の命を力として差し出した。
And so half of the survivors gave up their lives to serve as the source of the aether.
ヒュトロダエウス : そうして生み出されたゾディアークによって、
望みどおり、災厄は退けられたよ。
And thus was Zodiark born according to their plan, ad the calamity dealt with.
ヒュトロダエウス : ……でも、この星からはすでに多くの種が失われ、
大地は死に、水は濁り、風さえも淀んでいた。
...Even so, this planet had already lost many of its life forms. The earth was dead, the water polluted, and the very wind still.
ヒュトロダエウス : そこで、さらにまた半数がゾディアークに命を捧げ……
星を清め、木々や小さな命たちを芽吹かせたのさ。
Thus did a further half of the remaining people offer up their lives to Zodiark, that he might cleanse the planet and seed new life on it.
ヒュトロダエウス : そうして、再び命が巡りだしたとき……
人類は、いかにしてこの星を護り続けるかを再考した。
Time would pass, and eventually life would flourish again. They reconsidered the best way for humanity to continue their guardianship of this star once that time came.
ヒュトロダエウス : 十四人委員会の出した結論は、こうだ。
The Council of Fourteen presented this conclusion.
世界を育み、それが再び十分に満ち足りたときに、
いくらかの生命をゾディアークに捧げる……。
That when the time was ripe, and the world bountiful with life, they would sacrifice a portion of it to Zodiark...
ヒュトロダエウス : それによって、
ゾディアークの中に力として取り込まれた同胞たちを、
地上に復活させ……皆でまた、世界を管理する。
Such that he might revive those whose aether he had consumed for power, and everyone would once again oversee the world together.
ヒュトロダエウス : ……だが、それを良しとしない人々がいた。
But there were those who did not agree.
彼らは、ゾディアークに命を捧げるのをやめ、
新しい世界を、生まれ来る命たちに任せるべきだと言うんだ。
They believed that it was time for the sacrifices to come to an end, and for them to hand the new world over to the new lives living upon it.
ヒュトロダエウス : そして自分たちの命から、対のもの、ハイデリンを創り出した。
And so from their own power did they create a being to oppose him, Hydaelyn.
人類ははじめて2つに分かれて戦い……結果は知っているかな？
For the first time, mankind was divided in two, and we fought… I wonder if you know how it ends?
ヒュトロダエウス : ……そっか。
...I see.
ヒュトロダエウス : エメトセルクたちは、
まだゾディアークの名のもとに動いているようだね。
So Emet-Selch continues to labor in Zodiark's name.
ヒュトロダエウス : 当初の計画よりも、だいぶ回り道になっているけれど……
It has been a long road for him, quite a detour from the original plan.
きっとまだ、諦めていないんだ。
But surely, he has not yet given up.
あれに何かしらの命を捧げ、同胞を取り戻すことを。
He still intends to sacrifice countless lives to bring back his peers.
ヒュトロダエウス : というか……根が真面目な彼のことだ、
厭だ厭だと言いながら、背負ったものを、
誰にも託せなくなっているんだろう。
But well… he has always been an earnest one at heart. Even as he complains, he refuses to let anyone else take up his burdens.
ヒュトロダエウス : ……残酷な役回りだよ、本当にね。
...Truly, a cruel role he plays.
ヒュトロダエウス : ……ああそうだ、最後にもうひとつだけ。
...Ah, one last thing.
キミのそばには……多分もうひとり、いるだろう？
Next to you… there walks another, I believe?
ヒュトロダエウス : いや、姿形は見えていないんだけれどね。
I cannot see their form, no.
うっすらと……本当に薄くだけど、もうひとつの魂が視える。
It is faint, but… I can, just dimly, make out another soul there.
これを捉えられるのは、ワタシくらいのものかもしれない。
I believe I am likely the only one capable of it.
ヒュトロダエウス : それで……キミだけは、
その子に干渉できたりするんじゃないかい？
Likewise… you are the only one capable of interacting with them, are you not?
ヒュトロダエウス : フフ……それは偶然じゃないよ。
Fufu… it is no coincidence.
キミとその子の魂は、同じ色をしている。
Your soul and theirs are of the same color.
ワタシたちの時代において、ひとつだったのさ。
After all, you were both one in our time.
ヒュトロダエウス : そんな不思議な色の魂は……
Such a strangely colored soul...
うん、いくつに分かたれていても、間違えようがない。
I could never fail to recognize it, no matter how shattered.
ヒュトロダエウス : まったく、実に「あの人」らしい運命だ。
Ah, how fitting a fate for that one, indeed.
エメトセルクも、（彼・彼女）には思い入れがあるだろうから、
Surely Emet-Selch, too, must have realized who you are.
キミがそうだと、気づいているかもしれないね。
He remains attached to (him/her), after all.
ヒュトロダエウス : では、良い結末を。
Well then, I wish you a pleasant ending.
懐かしく、新しいキミ…………
My new old friend…
notes: yes, hythlodaeus explicitly switches between him/her depending on your wol's gender even in jp. this isn't a nael situation.

[Alleluia]

In either case, it gives a whole new take on Thordan's "who...what are you?" at the end of the battle with him. Yoshi said that the dark lighting on the WoL at the end was a mistake in lighting the cutscene, but it matches what we see at the end of the final 5.0 battle, so either it was a hint that they waved away at the time because they weren't ready to reveal it, or they retconed it into the game based on the new revelations.

It was definitely a hint they obfuscated about.

[Anonymoose]

Is there a citation for either of those claims? (Yoshi saying it was a lighting issue or admission of an obfuscated hint?) As far as we've been told, it was a very deliberate scene, but one that was focused on the rule of cool and seeing things from Thordan's point of view, and that it lined up so well with 5.0 was a happy accident that retroactively looks suspiciously like deliberate foreshadowing if you squint.

Gamer Escape:
At the end of Heavensward, the Warrior of Light saw themselves through Thordan’s eyes as he asked, “What are you?” The moment looked downright sinister. Should we be worried?

Koji Fox:
This was a combination of things. First, the cutscene team wanted to do something really dramatic. You see that a lot in anime—that dramatic perspective. The other half is that you’re literally seeing it through his eyes. He’s convinced himself that the way he was doing things was the correct way and that he was in the supreme right. Then you come in and you break all of that down. In his mind’s eye, you’re the evil one—and the last thing he sees is you in that evil image.