I'm gonna say something unpopular: I don't like to rush.

[Veis_Alveare]

I wasn't justifying not pressing AOE buttons. I was justifying pulling single packs. And the justification for single packs is "cus they want to".

As long as the dungeon gets cleared, it doesn't matter.

You made this standard.

Others disagree.

Not exactly rocket science.

Still waiting on any actual reasons btw. I could jump off the edge of every normal raid I do for the first five minutes - whatever, still gonna clear, doesn't matter. The logic is clearly flawed.

[Alleluia]

You made this standard.

Others disagree.

Not exactly rocket science.

Still waiting on any actual reasons btw. I could jump off the edge of every normal raid I do for the first five minutes - whatever, still gonna clear, doesn't matter. The logic is clearly flawed.

I'm confused. I made what standard? Please clarify.

Are you conflating executing AOE combos with pulling more than one pack of mobs? Cus you can AOE down single packs before moving on to a new one. So you can be perfectly fine using an AOE combo and still only want to pull single packs. I do this when running trusts, for example.

[Nestama]

I wasn't justifying not pressing AOE buttons. I was justifying pulling single packs. And the justification for single packs is "cus they want to".

As long as the dungeon gets cleared, it doesn't matter.

Then that justifies the healer or DPS pulling for the tank. Why? Cus they want to.
That's a petty take, I know, but if a majority prefers bigger pulls (and if it's Expert roulette, then there's a high chance this is what people want/expect), then the tank will have to do bigger pulls.

[Alleluia]

Then that justifies the healer or DPS pulling for the tank. Why? Cus they want to.

And if they do that in a rude way and don't reach an agreement with the tank first, then the tank is justified in not tanking those if they so choose. Cus they don't want to and they made that clear. Everyone gets to do what they want to. Glad we agree.

[Nestama]

A tank will always view that being as rude, even if it was an accident (a tank let me KO because they suddenly stopped while I was auto-running and I was looking back at my dog. This was in Qitana right after the first boss and I activated the bats). Anyway, the tank should always be expected to do big pulls in Expert, 80, 50/60/70 roulette. This is the norm and I doubt I've been consistently lucky with getting tanks who want to do wall to wall pulls (I'd say 9/10 tanks did wall to wall pulls and the tanks who didn't would sometimes be forced to do big pulls either by the healer or other DPS).

[Alleluia]

A tank will always view that being as rude, even if it was an accident (a tank let me KO because they suddenly stopped while I was auto-running and I was looking back at my dog. This was in Qitana right after the first boss and I activated the bats).

I addressed this scenario earlier in the thread, but to reiterate: You'd only be justified in letting the DPS/Healer tank what they pulled if they actually pulled it and it wasn't just an accident. If someone just runs past me and aggros once, especially if they haven't been doing it before, I assume it probably wasn't done on purpose. They do it consistently or right outta the gate, or keep trying to add more mobs when you have stopped and are already dealing with a pack, then they're doing it on purpose. That's when you ask them to stop (if you want them to stop) and then if they continue, you let them tank it.

Anyway, the tank should always be expected to do big pulls in Expert, 80, 50/60/70 roulette. This is the norm and I doubt I've been consistently lucky with getting tanks who want to do wall to wall pulls (I'd say 9/10 tanks did wall to wall pulls and the tanks who didn't would sometimes be forced to do big pulls either by the healer or other DPS).

Its something a lot of tanks do, sure. But its not a requirement of play and you shouldn't treat it as one. The dungeons are built with mob packs spaced out. There are tanks who only want to pull single packs at a time, for whatever reason, and they have a right to do so. Again, you can speak, so if you want them to go faster, then you are free to ask for bigger pulls. But if they say no, then you don't really have the right to insist, anymore than they have the right to critique your DPSing or healing. As long as the dungeon is being cleared, be polite and live with it taking an extra 4 minutes than what you prefer. Their experience matters as much to them as yours does to you.

[Nestama]

Technically, you do have a right to insist if a majority of the party wants/expect bigger pulls. If the tank says no, but three others say do it, then the tank has a choice to either do what the group desires, leave, or be kicked (if five minutes have elapsed). The tank may be the one leading the group safely through the dungeon, but they don't dictate it. Also, I'd personally love it if people critiqued me on my DPS, healing and tanking, as I want to improve (and if no one tells me, I look up guides).

[Veis_Alveare]

I'm confused. I made what standard? Please clarify.

Are you conflating executing AOE combos with pulling more than one pack of mobs? Cus you can AOE down single packs before moving on to a new one. So you can be perfectly fine using an AOE combo and still only want to pull single packs. I do this when running trusts, for example.

The standard you created was "as long as the dungeon gets cleared it doesn't matter" and that is most definitely not a standard that applies to everyone. It very much matters to lots of people that a dungeon is completed quickly.

You can of course use AoE on 3 enemies but using it on 15 is five times as effective. People care about that too. CDs (both defensive and offensive) line up well with big trash packs. I don't want to never have any reason to burst, it takes boring content and makes it even more boring.

I just wish people would stop staring their opinions as facts. You guys dont make the rules of duty Finder. If you can convince the other party members to kick the competent player who doesn't want to take forever go ahead but otherwise better to sit back and let people do their damn jobs.

[linayar]

Except the context is different. They're pulling to speed up the run and have no intention of causing a wipe whereas you refusing to pull off them is entirely out of pettiness while knowing full well said pettiness can lead to a wipe.

Even if you subscribe to the belief pulling for the tank is rude. Allowing the party to potential wipe so you can "teach them a lesson" is far worse.

I've never said to allow the party to wipe, so I don't know what you're talking about here. It seems like you're trying to respond to other people's posts, not mine.

a single-pulling tank in an endgame roulette is widely considered a detriment to the party; They're playing in a way that is considered obstructive/slow by most players doing endgame roulettes

A slower run is not obstructive in any way, and it's not a detriment to clearing a dungeon. So your premise is false.

Still waiting on any actual reasons btw. I could jump off the edge of every normal raid I do for the first five minutes - whatever, still gonna clear, doesn't matter. The logic is clearly flawed.

Yeah, your logic is flawed. Taking yourself out of the fight and letting others complete the work for you is not the same as doing smaller pulls in a dungeon where everyone is still doing their part in the fight.

[BadLala]

Since only one bothered to actually give a reason as to why single pulls are justifiable, I'll ask a different question. Why is it the tank the one who sets the pace of the group? Why do some say it's the tank's choice to decide the pull size?

Just because the tank is the one at the front taking the hit from mobs, doesn't mean they're automatically the leader of the pack and decide that. The leader can be the one at the front of the line or at the very back coordinating. And with a group of randoms, you can't just assume you decide how they play because you're a tank if it barely has an effect on your game play.

Logically, you'd let the person who has to put more work with each pack of mobs decide that (AKA the healer). If the healer can keep you alive without you having to do extra work when pulling an extra pack, then what's the problem? Let's even assume an extreme case. If a healer can heal you and keep you alive in a wall to wall push without you having to do any extra work, then why would you refuse? Wouldn't you pull wall to wall in an unsynced dungeon because you know the mobs can't kill you? (we're excluding the damage increase here, since damage isn't the issue people are discussing).

So saying the tank should be the one to set the pace is illogical, since the healer is the one doing the work.

(Image source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ho_pull_small/)