I'm gonna say something unpopular: I don't like to rush.

[phantomr23]

Since only one bothered to actually give a reason as to why single pulls are justifiable, I'll ask a different question. Why is it the tank the one who sets the pace of the group? Why do some say it's the tank's choice to decide the pull size?

Just because the tank is the one at the front taking the hit from mobs, doesn't mean they're automatically the leader of the pack and decide that. The leader can be the one at the front of the line or at the very back coordinating. And with a group of randoms, you can't just assume you decide how they play because you're a tank if it barely has an effect on your game play.

Logically, you'd let the person who has to put more work with each pack of mobs decide that (AKA the healer). If the healer can keep you alive without you having to do extra work when pulling an extra pack, then what's the problem? Let's even assume an extreme case. If a healer can heal you and keep you alive in a wall to wall push without you having to do any extra work, then why would you refuse? Wouldn't you pull wall to wall in an unsynced dungeon because you know the mobs can't kill you? (we're excluding the damage increase here, since damage isn't the issue people are discussing).

So saying the tank should be the one to set the pace is illogical, since the healer is the one doing the work.

Yeah, it's something I'm surprised hasn't come up. You never die because the tank runs out of cooldowns - at worst you'll probably be 10 seconds without a major cooldown before something comes back up. You die because the healer runs out of oGCDs and mana, and that's very very difficult to have happen. A good tank helps a lot for sure, and you'll absolutely notice if you get one, but they can't make up for a bad party like a good healer can.

[Veis_Alveare]

Yeah, your logic is flawed. Taking yourself out of the fight and letting others complete the work for you is not the same as doing smaller pulls in a dungeon where everyone is still doing their part in the fight.

It'd literally be less impactful to the success of the run to not participate in a normal raid than it is to pull small. Less time would be wasted. Pulling small is just basically AFKing anyways - tank doesn't need CDs and the healer can either tunnel vision dps or curebot.

Your part of the fight as anyone in a dungeon is to facilitate the expedient completion of the instance, same as any other group content. Baby pulling is literally not doing your job.

[Penthea]

Your part of the fight as anyone in a dungeon is to facilitate the expedient completion of the instance, same as any other group content. Baby pulling is literally not doing your job.

Eh I'm on the fence about this. There are a lot of reasons why a tank may not want to do big pulls. But I'm an easy going person so as long as things aren't too difficult or annoying I'm happy. But I understand why some want bigger pulls because it is faster and more interesting, and certainly for me who plays a healer single pack pulls are most times incredibly boring. I just don't happen to care much if we take things at a slower pace. When I'm in the mood to go super fast I bring my buddies with me to ensure I get the exact experience that I want.

Single pack pulls aren't wrong. They're just a more laid back playstyle. That's it really. Nothing special.

[Awha]

Since only one bothered to actually give a reason as to why single pulls are justifiable, I'll ask a different question. Why is it the tank the one who sets the pace of the group? Why do some say it's the tank's choice to decide the pull size?

Just because the tank is the one at the front taking the hit from mobs, doesn't mean they're automatically the leader of the pack and decide that. The leader can be the one at the front of the line or at the very back coordinating. And with a group of randoms, you can't just assume you decide how they play because you're a tank if it barely has an effect on your game play.

Logically, you'd let the person who has to put more work with each pack of mobs decide that (AKA the healer). If the healer can keep you alive without you having to do extra work when pulling an extra pack, then what's the problem? Let's even assume an extreme case. If a healer can heal you and keep you alive in a wall to wall push without you having to do any extra work, then why would you refuse? Wouldn't you pull wall to wall in an unsynced dungeon because you know the mobs can't kill you? (we're excluding the damage increase here, since damage isn't the issue people are discussing).

So saying the tank should be the one to set the pace is illogical, since the healer is the one doing the work.

(Image source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ho_pull_small/)

Long story short goes back to classic mmo holy trinity design. Could have all the healing in the world but if you got one shot it did not matter.

Old habits die hard.

That aside it is interesting to see how people frame single pulls as wrong. Though if we being 100% fair and objective. Single pulls are not wrong in the sense as others have pointed out it does not impact the chance of success.

More so comes down to a difference of play style more so then an issue of right or wrong. Playing sub optimal is not inherently wrong in terms of the design philosophy put forth by the devs.

It may be wrong in terms of a social norm established by a subset of the community. Though if someone does not subscribe to that norm because they are not part of thet subset within the community I do not think it is fair try and paint people sre objectively bad. In our opinion and to our peers they may be bad, though that may not be the case for aaid person.

This is why i support difference of play style kicks, and think it should be an option that is promoted by SE. People are 100% correct we should not force people to do something they do not, but we also are not forced to play with others that we do not wish to play with. Remove the person and go on with the rest of yhe group. Do not make it solely about speed and more so the aspect of overall enjoyment.

[LittleImp]

A slower run is not obstructive in any way, and it's not a detriment to clearing a dungeon. So your premise is false.

lol.
Modern MMOs favor efficiency, and rewards gained are usually compared to the time spent to obtain them. Rewards are looked at in terms of Xp/HR or Tomes/HR. Time has direct value in terms of rewards / character progression. Expectations around this are still fairly tempered, but no one wants to spend 2 hours doing daily grind content when they could spend 1 or less and use the rest doing other things like crafting or raiding.

If someone is left with only a few hours to play because of work, I think they'd rather not spend all of it held hostage in their dailies exclusively because someone has decided it's acceptable to put 0 effort into playing a cooperative game.

[Penthea]

lol.
Modern MMOs favor efficiency, and rewards gained are usually compared to the time spent to obtain them. Rewards are looked at in terms of Xp/HR or Tomes/HR. Time has direct value in terms of rewards / character progression. Expectations around this are still fairly tempered, but no one wants to spend 2 hours doing daily grind content when they could spend 1 or less and use the rest doing other things like crafting or raiding.

If someone is left with only a few hours to play because of work, I think they'd rather not spend all of it held hostage in their dailies exclusively because someone has decided it's acceptable to put 0 effort into playing a cooperative game.

Not saying I disagree with not wanting to spend very long doing things that are normally a lot shorter, but I can't say that my experience with single pack tanks has ever been that whatever combination of content I wanted to do that would normally take about an hour would end up taking two hours instead. You would need distinctly awful dps in addition to a single pack tank for content to take such an incredibly long time to complete. Which would also mean that the dungeons would take very long anyway even if the tank pulled multiple packs because the dps would be too crap to take advantage of the amount of mobs.

[phantomr23]

Not saying I disagree with not wanting to spend very long doing things that are normally a lot shorter, but I can't say that my experience with single pack tanks has ever been that whatever combination of content I wanted to do that would normally take about an hour would end up taking two hours instead. You would need distinctly awful dps in addition to a single pack tank for content to take such an incredibly long time to complete. Which would also mean that the dungeons would take very long anyway even if the tank pulled multiple packs because the dps would be too crap to take advantage of the amount of mobs.

It's an additive sort of thing. If every single-pulling tank adds five minutes onto your run, consider just how many dungeons you run over the course of your playtime in FFXIV. It's not like individual runs will be utterly awful - though I have had some trainwreck runs in the 40-60 minute range, but it's definitely something that eats your time up.

[Penthea]

It's an additive sort of thing. If every single-pulling tank adds five minutes onto your run, consider just how many dungeons you run over the course of your playtime in FFXIV. It's not like individual runs will be utterly awful - though I have had some trainwreck runs in the 40-60 minute range, but it's definitely something that eats your time up.

Yea sure it does but saying that something that normally takes an hour takes two hours instead just because of a tank pulling single packs? Based on my personal experience it would take far more than just a single pull tank to increase completion time by such a huge amount, even across many instances. Personally all my crazy long dungeons have been due to things that lead to wipes, people dcing or going afk. Never solely because a tank pulled one pack at a time.

[Silica-chan]

lol.
Modern MMOs favor efficiency, and rewards gained are usually compared to the time spent to obtain them. Rewards are looked at in terms of Xp/HR or Tomes/HR. Time has direct value in terms of rewards / character progression. Expectations around this are still fairly tempered, but no one wants to spend 2 hours doing daily grind content when they could spend 1 or less and use the rest doing other things like crafting or raiding.

If someone is left with only a few hours to play because of work, I think they'd rather not spend all of it held hostage in their dailies exclusively because someone has decided it's acceptable to put 0 effort into playing a cooperative game.

Go premade with people of your FC/Friendlslist/Linkshells/discord then. Not only will you get the playstyle you prefer you will also raduce / avoid queue times.

Randoms in the DF will always be randoms, nothing will ever change that.

[tdb]

It's an additive sort of thing. If every single-pulling tank adds five minutes onto your run, consider just how many dungeons you run over the course of your playtime in FFXIV. It's not like individual runs will be utterly awful - though I have had some trainwreck runs in the 40-60 minute range, but it's definitely something that eats your time up.

And then consider how much time you've spent browsing imgur, or watching netflix, or something equally unproductive. I'd wager that will trump the time taken for slower-than-average dungeon runs in FFXIV.