Delete Clemency and Vercure

[BasicBlake]

Can we add an effect to Vercure and Clemency that if they're (The red mage/paladin) affected by a healer's regens they can't use it? I'd love that.

This sounds like a terrible idea.

[Enla]

Only time I raise a brow at either of these skills being used is when I've demonstrated that I can capably heal and DPS the party. Yet even then, if someone wants to lower their DPS and let me increase mine then by all means have at it. I'm not going to cry if I get to cast Art of War a bunch more times.

Likewise while vercure won't save a wipe in most cases, it can make up for a bad healer in very niche situations. I had an Amaurot a few months back where I legitimately have no idea how this one WHM got themselves to 80. No situational awareness, barely any heals, NO DPS to make up for it, and constantly dying to silly things. I ended up having to be a vercure and rezbot for the entire dungeon and by the final boss I /was/ the main healer as RDM. Same thing happened with select runs of E4N. Sometimes when you're waiting on the healers to rez after both bit the dust, vercure spam can at least keep the tank from dying before the healers can get situated again. It's unsustainable, but sustainability takes a back seat towards keeping the run going in the moment.

In the end I don't understand why some people have fits over self-sustaining abilities on other classes that are situational at best. You almost never see them being used unless things are going pear shaped and in those situations they're there to make your job infinitely easier.

[Esmoire]

Vercure actually has pretty practical applications for RDM when you want to proc dualcast in a state that's post pull, such as when a boss becomes untargetable. Also good in messy situations in PvP when you LOS or the enemy is a bit out of reach. It's a pretty fun gameplay mechanic and I'd hate to see that taken out.

[kaynide]

The "if you're not wiping everything is fine" mentality (also known as lul omg guiz itz jus a game tryhard stfu u don't pay my sub) is without a doubt the most toxic aspect of the entirety of ffxiv, PVP and high end raiding both included.

How so? Not wiping doesn’t mean playing piss poor, it means playing the game with the skills on my bar and not stressing if I can’t get that perfect 25 step drg combo down every time.

Not worrying about perfect form is a far cry from what you’re suggesting, I’m just sorry your feelings are hurting over other people stepping on your toes with their healing spells :/

[Veis_Alveare]

How so? Not wiping doesn’t mean playing piss poor, it means playing the game with the skills on my bar and not stressing if I can’t get that perfect 25 step drg combo down every time.

Not worrying about perfect form is a far cry from what you’re suggesting, I’m just sorry your feelings are hurting over other people stepping on your toes with their healing spells :/

You may not intend "not wiping = fine" to mean playing piss poor but you'd have to be willfully ignorant if you won't admit that this is used as the rationale to justify a fair bit more than imperfect play.

Dps not AoEing a large pull? Didn't wipe. Tank not using CDs? Didn't wipe. Healer just healbotting and contributing nothing? Welp, not wiping so that's also perfectly fine.

To be clear my feelings are just fine, I feel no ownership over any particular part of a group's success. Doing damage, mitigating and keeping the group alive are all everyone's responsibility, the only difference is as a healer I have more tools for one than the others. My issue is people not contributing to all three of these, specifically when they have so much more potential than I do to accomplish that. As an AST I'm not intended to be carrying all three of those facets to success.

If you reduce "success" to "clearing the instance before the timer runs down" you've effectively made all that pointless. I may as well stand still and do just enough healing to keep people alive through unavoidable damage with nothing else. That isn't a game I have any interest in for a variety of reasons, largest among them because I don't feel entitled to wasting the time of three other people.

That's what I'll be generous and say 80% of the Clemency casts I've seen are, and virtually 100% of the Vercures outside of dual cast proccing during forced downtime. They're wastes of everyone's time. We can and should do better.

[Ammokkx]

You may not intend "not wiping = fine" to mean playing piss poor but you'd have to be willfully ignorant if you won't admit that this is used as the rationale to justify a fair bit more than imperfect play.

Dps not AoEing a large pull? Didn't wipe. Tank not using CDs? Didn't wipe. Healer just healbotting and contributing nothing? Welp, not wiping so that's also perfectly fine.

To be clear my feelings are just fine, I feel no ownership over any particular part of a group's success. Doing damage, mitigating and keeping the group alive are all everyone's responsibility, the only difference is as a healer I have more tools for one than the others. My issue is people not contributing to all three of these, specifically when they have so much more potential than I do to accomplish that. As an AST I'm not intended to be carrying all three of those facets to success.

If you reduce "success" to "clearing the instance before the timer runs down" you've effectively made all that pointless. I may as well stand still and do just enough healing to keep people alive through unavoidable damage with nothing else. That isn't a game I have any interest in for a variety of reasons, largest among them because I don't feel entitled to wasting the time of three other people.

That's what I'll be generous and say 80% of the Clemency casts I've seen are, and virtually 100% of the Vercures outside of dual cast proccing during forced downtime. They're wastes of everyone's time. We can and should do better.

There's a difference between inefficiency that loses you a couple of seconds at best, and ones that lose you minutes worth of time per pull. Using your AoE on more than 2 mobs is basic courtesy because your efficiency goes up anywhere from 100% to 1000% (hyperbolically speaking) while Vercure/Clemency is 1 skill's worth of time loss, so you're in the single digits percent of efficiency loss.

People don't use these skills to go out of their way and make the gameplay experience slower for you. They're doing it because they have some reason, justified or not, to believe that if they don't heal, the healer won't be able to keep up by the end. Therefor, they figure that they'd best heal themselves to avoid a potential wipe and lose even more time than they lose by healing.

Perspective. Context. Don't be like OP and expect people to speedrun everything, because it's not only unrealistic to expect that level of communication from pubs, but it's also unrealistic to expect everyone to be of equal skill or insight to you.

[kaynide]

...

Look I’m not going to argue semantics with you. It’s pretty obvious from your post history you are part of the small percent of the game that focus on endgame content and speed running. You represent a percent of a percent, and I’m not going to tell you your way is wrong, because it is how you are having fun.

I would say telling others they also have to be at peak efficiency or they are pointless is a hell of a lot more toxic than anything I have said. You are essentially arguing that my (and a large majority of casuals) play-style is wrong. “Your fun is wrong” is a crap attitude to have. Good day.

[Beardo04]

I think both are great for oh shit moments where healers are down

[Tint]

Clemency is maybe a bit too powerfull on a tank job wich is nearly unkillable. And because tanks are not doing that much damage the trade-off is not that huge either. Vercure is completely fine (and removing it would make it much harder to solo Palace of the Dead in the future).

I don't think they should remove the skills.

[ClickOnce]

This was a very elaborate troll post. Baited lots of people.