Delete Clemency and Vercure

[Goji1639]

Define earlier. The person quoted simply said "when my HP gets low". Is that 50%? 20%? Goji just below you assumes "low" is <50%. Which takes away significant value from both Benediction and Essential.

Getting maximum value out of Bene and Essential isn't necessary. I'm not always in the mood to guess at whether the Healer fell asleep or he's trying to show off when he lets my health just sit below 50 on a huge pull, so I'll do his job for him.

If Healers mind me using Clemency they shouldn't give me a reason to. If they don't mind then everything's cool.

[Packetdancer]

To each their own, I suppose, but Clemency should basically almost never see any use outside prog.

I would say the 'almost' includes PotD solo runs, because MAN is Clemency handy in there on floors where auto-heal is disabled as a floor effect. (Or in deep runs on PotD with a party, if your WHM happens to presently be rampaging around as a manticore and someone else steps on a landmine.)

But yeah, I tend to manage the tank's HP based on what I have available. I've got Benediction up? I'm gonna plan to use it when you're somewhere between 20-30%. (Below 20% is great, but the game's creative server tick and ability priority stuff can make it risky. Also I'll tend to put it slightly higher on GNB, because I've seen one too many "Okay, time to Bene— well, crap, they just popped Superbolide at the same moment I Bene'd." moments.) Benediction's on cooldown? Then yeah, I'll probably let you drop into somewhere in the 45-60% range and hit with Solace and weave Tetra. Plus I've usually put Regen and Benison on the tank, maybe dropped an Asylum or popped Temperance, so the damage is already less than it could be.

And I have similar metrics for AST, as to what I'll wait for the tank to drop to before using it.

I can judge roughly how much healing my own kit will do, and I'm going to wait until the tank has taken enough damage to make it worth using an given bit of that kit. If someone starts Clemency'ing themselves to stay above 80% at all times, they'll never reach that point. Though if they keep it up for long enough, I'll sometimes sigh and adjust my mental mileposts a bit, and just suffer the indignity of generating overheal in the name of not having a tank panic.

(But I'll be quietly growing a crust of salt as I do.)

[van_arn]

Remember kids, if the tank insists on healing themselves when you have things under control you can just go back to casting holy!

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Remember kids, if the tank insists on healing themselves when you have things under control you can just go back to casting holy!

^ this tbh

Also...
Making Clememecy an oGCD heal would make it no different than WAR's [Equilibrium]. Besides, PLD have the easiest & longest invuln cooldown, and slightly more defensive utilities compared to the rest of tanks. Letting them waste a potential damaging GCD for a targeted heal is a decent trade-off in my opinion. It also makes them slightly unique compared to the other tank, being able to target a GCD heal.
As for [Vercure], I wish they accumulate White Mana because they're technically a white magic like RDM's [Veraero] & [Verstone]. Same goes to [Verraise] as well. I believe that way it'll add a bit more consideration for player who wants to use them: "How many times can I use this before my Mana balance tips off?". Spam it, and that RDM will be in for a bad, -bad- mana fixing time.

[Goji1639]

On my PLD if I'm below 50% for more than a few seconds then I just assume I need to be the groups Healer. Healers who let the tanks HP get to like 15% are annoying; the way the server ticks and abilities tend to land late that could easily get the tank killed.

If a tanks health is low he doesn't know if you're playing chicken with Benediction or if you're just focused on a really funny part of whatever Netflix show you're watching. If I have the ability to heal myself I'm going to. If that offends Healers then they need to stay on top of things in a way that makes everyone aware they're on top of things.

[Raikai]

Differently from the OP, my experience with the healing utility of Vercure was actually being able to help out a struggling healer. I'm of the pov that removing off-role utility would only make jobs more boring and even more homogenized.

[Puremallace]

Delete Clemency and I unsub. It is as simple as that. I do not play FF14 to have these cookie cutter roles but to be able to have spur of the moment assist during a fight. If you start deleting abilities because there is crossover in any form then the MMO becomes extremely bland and boring.

[Nestama]

I keep Clemency on my Narnia bar. It gathers dust for never being used and it's far away from my main and AoE hotbars. Only time I ever use it is if the Healer KO's, but it's still possible to clear the fight (I still believe it's a worthless skill, though. Wouldn't miss it if it were deleted).
I otherwise fully trust the Healer (even when I have 10% HP remaining. That WHM really wanted to see how low I could go).

[Duskane]

Clemency and PLD entire utility needs to be reworked
Vercure is fine if people wanna play a healer with Longer ques go ahead
but its good for procing dual cast during boss down time

[Alaray]

ill toss my 2cents in to say that both abilities are useful progression tools (granted, so was old tank stance, of which i still miss)

and additionally, rdms can set up a dualcast with a vercure during "boss go bye" points during a fight

so i don't really see a reason to delete the tools from the jobs

idc what tf people do in dungeons tbh, it's a dungeon, you can aa the entire thing and win it's really a zero factor there. paladin spamming clemency? ok ill just spam holy, art of war, gravity.

rdm healing instead of me? ill just continue providing more overall damage output to the pull than when they weren't.

as a side note, requiescat + clemency is a very nice tool to have when you feel bored and decide to solo random raids for the fun of it

im not really for removing tools from a toolkit for the sake of removing them, especially if they're only kept as "iconic" and are kind of otherwise worthless as a separate button (im still salty abt what they did to abyssal drain ok)


if it's really just "bad players use them poorly" okay, then just delete every ability. because it's not going to fix that, lol.