Delete Clemency and Vercure

[TeraRamis]

Clemency is more of a soloing ability. Honestly, without it, I probably couldn't solo some of the sillier boss fates.

[Ammokkx]

Y'all this is a four month old thread and OP already said they've changed their opinion on this lmfao

I got jebaited.

[AbelArchaniEA]

Edit: for those who don't know, Clemency and Vercure are PLD's and RDM's GCD (fairly strong) single target healing abilities.
Edit+update: I'm convinced the abilities shouldn't be removed because they're part of the identity of both jobs, but I'll be in favor of giving them a cooldown and/or putting them on oGCD.

Original Post:
I'm exaggerating with the title and am not convinced those abilities should be deleted yet, but hear me out:

Very insulting as healer if you see RDM or PLD use Clemency/Vercure when you have everything under control. You're maximizing your dps as healer and thus put in some effort to efficiently heal to extend party will survive only to see the dps gain get completely wasted by that Vercure/Clemency.

At first I kind of liked those abilities when leveling both PLD and RDM, but now have come to hate them when leveling healers to the point I'm wondering if those abilities should even exist. Sure they're really nice abilities if you're doing solo content, but they may suggest the wrong idea to some players by making them believe they should freely use them in group content.

The thing is that healers currently usually rely on their oGCD's for healing while they keep GCD's for dps. In many cases they will let HP decrease so they can make optimal use of their oGCD's. Some RDM and PLD may start thinking they or someone else are going to die with their decreasing health while healer has everything under control and is 1 tap away of getting their HP back up.

There are some exceptional cases, like when healer is dead, or massive overpulling in some specific lower level dungoens, but vast majority of cases I see those 2 abilities used is a complete waste.

The dps loss doesn't bother me that much, it's just not nice for a healer when they're already stuck with their monotone dps rotation and on top of that they deny you of enjoying your job with well timed oGCD's.

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Edit: reply that adds argument:

You forget to add /ENDRANT

[Derio]

If you remove clemency or make it have a long cooldown then you need to give PLD some self sustain/other form of self healing.

[Katie_Kitty]

Actually I support the change of clemency and the out right removal of vercure. Non-healers shouldn't be stand ins for healers.

What lmao. why even call it a red mage then? Part of RDM's very identity has been its ability to fill in as a healer in a pinch while also providing magical damage and even formidable frontline melee attacks.

[HadesNight]

Original Post Snip

This is an interesting argument. I never thought of it like that. When I see an exceptional healer that is DPSing and blowing up stuff with me, I tend to pop any healing I have that doesn't take away from DPS as a "let me help you out further, please you're amazing, keep DPSing). So I don't really use clemancy since that mana can be used elsewhere but on GNB I pop Aurora on cooldown. Not meant to show any bad faith, it's more of a "why not use it" kinda thing.

Personally, I don't care if I get down to 5k health. As long as I stay alive and you've healed me up by the next pack, I'm ok with it. But it also feels kinda silly reading this post.

If you're a healer that takes issue with this, start the dungeon off by saying "hey I'm gonna dps a lot, your health will get low, but you won't die so just mitigate on CD and we're set". I don't get why in an MMO dungeons are run silently with people guessing at the motivations of others when they can be fun and like you know... Social...???

I legit start each tank run with a macro that asks the healers preference in pull size, if a healer started it off by telling me this, I'd probably be amped, pop sprint and be on my way. IDK, this is an interesting topic, I don't think people mean to offend. It's natural to fear death and not trust a stranger considering how many TERRIBLE players are allowed to queue up into public content without consequence.

[Videra]

Can we add an effect to Vercure and Clemency that if they're (The red mage/paladin) affected by a healer's regens they can't use it? I'd love that.

[Deceptus]

I've literally saved parties from wipes due to Clemency. I love it.

Min/maxers complain that you're losing DPS when you use it, but dead people do zero DPS and a wiped party has to start over.

[Fable_Frost]

I only use Clemency when I have a gut feeling that the healer is not completely up to the task on some rare wall to wall extra big pulls. There have been times where I've tested just "trusting the healer" and died and the group has wiped, whereas if I trusted my own instinct on what was a clemency or die situation we would have lived. As a Paladin or any tank really, you get a feel for your healer's capability very quickly.
I still would only use it once or twice in those extreme situations, otherwise i'm pumping out as much damage as possible.

For example Amaurot, the last couple of pulls before the last boss - a lot of healers struggle to keep up on heals when you wall to wall on those 2 sections there, sometimes I like to clemency to give them a hand - that's my call to make.

Observation: Playing my DPS jobs and watching DRK, GNB & WAR's tank in duty finder I honestly find majority of them don't go as hard as a Paladin can & does in terms of wall to wall pulling, and that's most likely because they've died in those situations where a Paladin survives with a clemency.


Trust your Paladin.

[StrumerJohn]

I don't know why healers complain about skills like these. I sure don't. Gives me more time to DPS myself if they want to do my job for me. Most the content that you're running with randoms that are curing themselves anyways isn't stuff you need to min max for so you can't even say it's causing an enrage due to DPS loss or anything. This game is already boring enough with 3 strict roles. The small amount of hybrid utility that other jobs have make it fun.