WAR needs love

[Sqwall]

this doesn't even come close to compare. the equivalent skill you are looking for Nascent Flash is Intervention on Paladin, which does require a party member targeted to use. Divine Veil equivalent is Shake it Off, which does not require a middle man for activation.

This skill should not even need another party member to be used. It's useless if you solo, but then most people say use your chocobo. That's not the point. The point is make worth using. Bloodbath would fix all of this, and I honestly don't know why SE decided to take it away from warrior to begin with, and then give it back in a worse form.

Remove Nascent Glint mechanic and increase the length timer to 10 seconds and this skill is fixed honestly. Change it so you can cast it on ANY party member and would fix the OT aspect as well.

[A-Omega]

Holmgang is the best???? In what world!!! You can’t possibly play tank if you honestly believe that. Give me invulnerability over dropping to 1 hp and hoping a healer can save you any day.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Holmgang is the best???? In what world!!! You can’t possibly play tank if you honestly believe that. Give me invulnerability over dropping to 1 hp and hoping a healer can save you any day.

they are referring to savage fights, not 4man dungeons (to an extent EX/24man. since damage isnt always fatal w/o a CD, and nor do u always need 2, or even 3, CDs to survive a TB)
Invincibility will be better for 4 mans, but being able to survive multiple tank busters that deal more than all your HP in dmg, rather often, is always more useful than 1 invincibility in the same savage fight. The only reason its value is much lower now, is (1) they created fights where soaking dmg was longer than a the duration of old holmgang, or (2) didnt have a target before the change to holmgang. and the biggest reason (3) theres no longer a "DPS stance" in which u can truly benefit from having holmgang take ungodly strong TBs with, w/o having to worry about stacking CDs, turning tank stance on, and or use a tank swap for, due to not having enough CDs to survive.

Obviously in a 4man pull, going to 1 hp just means the healer couldnt outheal the dmg they take, and so its pointless. but in a savage fight, the boss charages up a single attack, and after its over, they go back to tickling u with light auto dmg, and a healer can more than easily bring u up past the safety net. (And so can you as WAR with Thrill+equilibrium+NF combined. But this is one of the reasons I wish Thrill of battle was WARs primary CD, instead of RI.)

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

It’s kinda of not a equivalent since NF isn’t on a gauge and isn’t only for a party member DR

Read your tooltips NF is also a DR, of 10%, that also happens to heal both the WAR and targeted party member. So irrespective of costing gauge they both have the same function. NF is ST support skill with a bit of WAR flavour mixed in. To say contrary is incorrect otherwise devs woulda gave WAR Bloodbath.

[Vatom]

Read your tooltips NF is also a DR, of 10%, that also happens to heal both the WAR and targeted party member. So irrespective of costing gauge they both have the same function. NF is ST support skill with a bit of WAR flavour mixed in. To say contrary is incorrect otherwise devs woulda gave WAR Bloodbath.

I feel like you didn’t even read what I said they aren’t the same pld can buff theirs
Higher with cds so it’s like giving some ones cd NF is a solid 10% dr plus quoting someone else who I guess is the parse good 5k heals adds bosses etc all do like 10k + base att dmg heals are not DRs guys plz stop thinking that way they are time prolonging yes but not dmg reducing so if you get crit or hit with something big down you go NF isn’t the same as intervention it just has similar duration and dr unless buffed that all I’m hearing If that’s the case then tbn would be the same according to your logic but tbn is insanely good and leagues better heart of stone and brutal shell better 15% dr with a shield come on bro do you read lol do you even tank

[Kabooa]

I feel like you didn’t even read what I said they aren’t the same pld can buff theirs
Higher with cds so it’s like giving some ones cd NF is a solid 10% dr plus quoting someone else who I guess is the parse good 5k heals adds bosses etc all do like 10k + base att dmg heals are not DRs guys plz stop thinking that way they are time prolonging yes but not dmg reducing so if you get crit or hit with something big down you go NF isn’t the same as intervention it just has similar duration and dr unless buffed that all I’m hearing If that’s the case then tbn would be the same according to your logic but tbn is insanely good and leagues better heart of stone and brutal shell better 15% dr with a shield come on bro do you read lol do you even tank

Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect.

[Vatom]

Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Cute but that still doesn’t get us anywhere nor have proven anything but insults

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I feel like you didn’t even read what I said they aren’t the same pld can buff theirs
Higher with cds so it’s like giving some ones cd NF is a solid 10% dr plus quoting someone else who I guess is the parse good 5k heals adds bosses etc all do like 10k + base att dmg heals are not DRs guys plz stop thinking that way they are time prolonging yes but not dmg reducing so if you get crit or hit with something big down you go NF isn’t the same as intervention it just has similar duration and dr unless buffed that all I’m hearing If that’s the case then tbn would be the same according to your logic but tbn is insanely good and leagues better heart of stone and brutal shell better 15% dr with a shield come on bro do you read lol do you even tank

It’s kinda of not a equivalent since NF isn’t on a gauge and isn’t only for a party member DR

So I have what you said and you said "it's kinda of not a equivalent", when both require a target, and both give said target damage reduction, both have a degree of job flavour, I mean unless you cannot understand what you wrote, Idk but that is as close as you get to the same skill without homogenisation. And yes, TBN and HoS are all under the the same branch as Intervention and Nascent Flash, when used on another party member as they all mitigate damage on another party member.

"come on bro do you read lol do you even tank" also personal attacks like this are nothing but a pathetic scapegoat when someone is talking out of their a** but yes I can tank bro, with all savage fights from Creator up to current tier minus Shiva cleared, due to finishing off TEA, with no ultimate in 5.3 we took our time and have Ultimate kills under my belt, all as PLD, so yea bro I can tank leagues better than you.

[Vatom]

Ok nice flex I mean ultimate really isn’t relevant Anymore and savage anyone can do now not Like I haven’t savage since HW too so now I’ll retract my last statement Out of respect it was out of line but back to the debate

I think I’m getting what your saying now that we clear some of it up your saying they are all the same cause they can be given to other player and I’m saying no they are not now that we got this part of where we stand let’s go back into what I was getting and you can retort

NF does not = intervention or tbn or Hos especially his and tbn and that be cause they can be dropped on themselves whole mech that changes it’s us and benefits the tank and tbn is even better granted if it break you get a free att I mean I could complain about my cost but this isn’t a drk thread it’s a War thread if NF did any of that I could say yeah those two should be in twine with this but they are in a different group or to be in a compromising position sub group that’s the closet I’ll get but intervention is tied by gauge = not a cd for pld raw and NF tied together that’s a cd no a team buff though it has the workings of it I’ll give you that because of the locking of it to another player And my comment all of the tank abilities like that might as well be all in the same group was just sarcasm sorry flew over someone’s head I guess just because the have 1 true similarity does mean they are but anyway it still doesn’t come close to the other excluding pld which can also cover... does that count too? But anyway even if we go you route it’s still at the lowest of the 4 which is why this thread was made plus the other parts of war that kinda don’t fit together but let’s us finish with your reply and move on to real matters at hand which is to discuss war faults granted I still see other tank have some too but no game is perfect just war needs well... some love Anyway I’m done

Please respond

Note: I don’t need to talk out my *** as your saying I’ve been through the ups and downs of this game for roughly 8years I’ve seen Drk dodge aoes like they never existed I’ve done it I’ve seen Pld cheese mechs and revive a healer so he could lb3 the party I’ve seen Warriors clutch the clear cause he said I got this and bloodbath his way to victory so no I never talk out my *** but I give you this I was a bit emotional and for that your have my regrets but don’t think cause of ultimate you and I are on a different scaling cause I’ve seen it and done it

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Ok nice flex I mean ultimate really isn’t relevant Anymore and savage anyone can do now not Like I haven’t savage since HW too so now I’ll retract my last statement Out of respect it was out of line but back to the debate

I wouldn't describe Ultimates as "really isn’t relevant Anymore" they are still the most difficult content in the game and still some people struggle even now. Savage is hit and miss, but a lot of people even struggle with that. Both still deserve some respect in terms of the content it brings, even though savage has become easier over the years.

I think I’m getting what your saying now that we clear some of it up your saying they are all the same cause they can be given to other player and I’m saying no they are not now that we got this part of where we stand let’s go back into what I was getting and you can retort

NF does not = intervention or tbn or Hos especially his and tbn and that be cause they can be dropped on themselves whole mech that changes it’s us and benefits the tank and tbn is even better granted if it break you get a free att I mean I could complain about my cost but this isn’t a drk thread it’s a War thread if NF did any of that I could say yeah those two should be in twine with this but they are in a different group or to be in a compromising position sub group that’s the closet I’ll get but intervention is tied by gauge = not a cd for pld raw and NF tied together that’s a cd no a team buff though it has the workings of it I’ll give you that because of the locking of it to another player And my comment all of the tank abilities like that might as well be all in the same group was just sarcasm sorry flew over someone’s head I guess just because the have 1 true similarity does mean they are but anyway it still doesn’t come close to the other excluding pld which can also cover... does that count too? But anyway even if we go you route it’s still at the lowest of the 4 which is why this thread was made plus the other parts of war that kinda don’t fit together but let’s us finish with your reply and move on to real matters at hand which is to discuss war faults granted I still see other tank have some too but no game is perfect just war needs well... some love Anyway I’m done

Please respond

There isn't much here I need to counter with as this is very much an agree to disagree scenario. Obviously each skill is different, but all four skills carry out the same function when used on another party member other than self. All four mitigate damage on another party member. Each has a unique feature, WAR gets to heal itself plus target member through NF. PLD can buff their Intervention, but only if it lines up, you don't typically go out of your way to buff it, unless required cooldowns will be back up for when you need them. TBN, you've already brought up, personally the cost is justified imo, so as to not abuse a cheaper cost for flood/edge, and it also has the shortest recast timer of all four. HoS can apply it's BS on top of the 15%, only while under the effect of BS. And, all have a unique trade-off to use, NF shares a recast timer with RI, Intervention has a cost of 50 gauge, TBN cost 3,000mp, and prevent a second use on self if use on another and HoS just a recast timer but same as TBN precludes another use until it comes off cooldown, also arguably the weaker of the four imo. As far as I see it, all four skills work in the same capacity with similarities to one another. Therefore I classify them all under one branch, the only exception is TBN and HoS, are treated with a dual classification since they also compare against Sheltron and Raw Intuition.

*side note*: Cover I kinda view as a unique utility skill along the same lines as Passage of Arms, mostly as it's a redirect of damage, not a damage mitigation skill outright.

I can understand wanting improvements for WAR, but NF I do not agree with needing any sort of change, I genuinely believe requiring a party member keeps the skill balanced, to use Clemency as a point to argue, it's very potent but requires MP and a GCD to use so requires a heavy cost for a large amount of healing, NF being less, but still absurd levels for how frequent it can be used, targeting requirement in my eyes seems fair. Honestly I believe WAR requires a full rework and the removal of current IR on the whole and redesigned is more vital for the job to make it less boring to play and not the odd child out with the guaranteed crit DH mechanic, preventing it sharing the actual BiS with the other three tanks but to name a couple problems with the job.

Note: I don’t need to talk out my *** as your saying I’ve been through the ups and downs of this game for roughly 8years I’ve seen Drk dodge aoes like they never existed I’ve done it I’ve seen Pld cheese mechs and revive a healer so he could lb3 the party I’ve seen Warriors clutch the clear cause he said I got this and bloodbath his way to victory so no I never talk out my *** but I give you this I was a bit emotional and for that your have my regrets but don’t think cause of ultimate you and I are on a different scaling cause I’ve seen it and done it

Tbh, you did p*** me off ngl, and I've played since the beginning of HW, so I've seen and done it all from that point onwards, and only thing I won't take your word on here is, "I’ve seen Pld cheese mechs and revive a healer so he could lb3 the party". Simply because Raise was traited on WHM to allow combat raise, a trait which paladin did not gain access to. As you did p*** me off, by insulting me, of course, I was not going to be polite in my response, and I used my ultimate and savage accolades as a counter point to your "lol do you even tank".