WAR needs love

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

It’s kinda of not a equivalent since NF isn’t on a gauge and isn’t only for a party member DR

Read your tooltips NF is also a DR, of 10%, that also happens to heal both the WAR and targeted party member. So irrespective of costing gauge they both have the same function. NF is ST support skill with a bit of WAR flavour mixed in. To say contrary is incorrect otherwise devs woulda gave WAR Bloodbath.

[Vatom]

Read your tooltips NF is also a DR, of 10%, that also happens to heal both the WAR and targeted party member. So irrespective of costing gauge they both have the same function. NF is ST support skill with a bit of WAR flavour mixed in. To say contrary is incorrect otherwise devs woulda gave WAR Bloodbath.

I feel like you didn’t even read what I said they aren’t the same pld can buff theirs
Higher with cds so it’s like giving some ones cd NF is a solid 10% dr plus quoting someone else who I guess is the parse good 5k heals adds bosses etc all do like 10k + base att dmg heals are not DRs guys plz stop thinking that way they are time prolonging yes but not dmg reducing so if you get crit or hit with something big down you go NF isn’t the same as intervention it just has similar duration and dr unless buffed that all I’m hearing If that’s the case then tbn would be the same according to your logic but tbn is insanely good and leagues better heart of stone and brutal shell better 15% dr with a shield come on bro do you read lol do you even tank

[Kabooa]

I feel like you didn’t even read what I said they aren’t the same pld can buff theirs
Higher with cds so it’s like giving some ones cd NF is a solid 10% dr plus quoting someone else who I guess is the parse good 5k heals adds bosses etc all do like 10k + base att dmg heals are not DRs guys plz stop thinking that way they are time prolonging yes but not dmg reducing so if you get crit or hit with something big down you go NF isn’t the same as intervention it just has similar duration and dr unless buffed that all I’m hearing If that’s the case then tbn would be the same according to your logic but tbn is insanely good and leagues better heart of stone and brutal shell better 15% dr with a shield come on bro do you read lol do you even tank

Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect.

[Vatom]

Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Cute but that still doesn’t get us anywhere nor have proven anything but insults

[Gyukaku]

WAR can only perform satisfactorily in MT.
But since DRK is the most active in MT, there is no need for WAR.
ST has the best PLD, so the other tanks will have to give up their seats.
Now PLD has a monopoly on ST, and the other tanks are competing for MT.
Unless the ST problem is solved, the adoption rate of WAR with inferior MT performance will remain the lowest.
WAR is the weakest in the tank, so I want to improve it.

[Hierro]

WAR can only perform satisfactorily in MT.
But since DRK is the most active in MT, there is no need for WAR.
ST has the best PLD, so the other tanks will have to give up their seats.
Now PLD has a monopoly on ST, and the other tanks are competing for MT.
Unless the ST problem is solved, the adoption rate of WAR with inferior MT performance will remain the lowest.
WAR is the weakest in the tank, so I want to improve it.

I guess GNB just stinks, eh?

On the subject of WAR: It performs as well as DRK. DRK works great as a tank, but WAR affords the healers more DPS because NF, ToB, and Equilibrium all give out fairly consistent ways to self-heal without requiring a healer's GCD. That is to say, WAR's DPS isn't just the damage it brings on its own, but the damage it allows healers as well.

Now, I would argue DRK is capable of some healing via shielding from TBN, but it's nowhere near as forgiving or potent as the healing done with WAR. To optimize TBN, you would have to use it frequently enough to the point you're risking having the bubble not pop, but that can be avoided with practice and rote memorization. But again, that's still not as good as what WAR brings to the table while requiring a higher skill level to achieve.

As for mitigation itself, let's think on the following: Old school defiance, shield oath, and grit were mathematical equivalents. One gave 25% more HP, while the others reduced damage by 20%. So, mathematically speaking, TBN and RI are eHP equivalents. However, NF is better than RI when damage is non-lethal, so there's a logical basis for saying it beats out TBN. Granted, the argument is obviously more nuanced, TBN and NF both interact and synergize with other cooldowns in their own way, and benefits to supplementing the other tank.

Point being, there's good enough reason to bring WAR as MT.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I feel like you didn’t even read what I said they aren’t the same pld can buff theirs
Higher with cds so it’s like giving some ones cd NF is a solid 10% dr plus quoting someone else who I guess is the parse good 5k heals adds bosses etc all do like 10k + base att dmg heals are not DRs guys plz stop thinking that way they are time prolonging yes but not dmg reducing so if you get crit or hit with something big down you go NF isn’t the same as intervention it just has similar duration and dr unless buffed that all I’m hearing If that’s the case then tbn would be the same according to your logic but tbn is insanely good and leagues better heart of stone and brutal shell better 15% dr with a shield come on bro do you read lol do you even tank

It’s kinda of not a equivalent since NF isn’t on a gauge and isn’t only for a party member DR

So I have what you said and you said "it's kinda of not a equivalent", when both require a target, and both give said target damage reduction, both have a degree of job flavour, I mean unless you cannot understand what you wrote, Idk but that is as close as you get to the same skill without homogenisation. And yes, TBN and HoS are all under the the same branch as Intervention and Nascent Flash, when used on another party member as they all mitigate damage on another party member.

"come on bro do you read lol do you even tank" also personal attacks like this are nothing but a pathetic scapegoat when someone is talking out of their a** but yes I can tank bro, with all savage fights from Creator up to current tier minus Shiva cleared, due to finishing off TEA, with no ultimate in 5.3 we took our time and have Ultimate kills under my belt, all as PLD, so yea bro I can tank leagues better than you.

[Vatom]

Ok nice flex I mean ultimate really isn’t relevant Anymore and savage anyone can do now not Like I haven’t savage since HW too so now I’ll retract my last statement Out of respect it was out of line but back to the debate

I think I’m getting what your saying now that we clear some of it up your saying they are all the same cause they can be given to other player and I’m saying no they are not now that we got this part of where we stand let’s go back into what I was getting and you can retort

NF does not = intervention or tbn or Hos especially his and tbn and that be cause they can be dropped on themselves whole mech that changes it’s us and benefits the tank and tbn is even better granted if it break you get a free att I mean I could complain about my cost but this isn’t a drk thread it’s a War thread if NF did any of that I could say yeah those two should be in twine with this but they are in a different group or to be in a compromising position sub group that’s the closet I’ll get but intervention is tied by gauge = not a cd for pld raw and NF tied together that’s a cd no a team buff though it has the workings of it I’ll give you that because of the locking of it to another player And my comment all of the tank abilities like that might as well be all in the same group was just sarcasm sorry flew over someone’s head I guess just because the have 1 true similarity does mean they are but anyway it still doesn’t come close to the other excluding pld which can also cover... does that count too? But anyway even if we go you route it’s still at the lowest of the 4 which is why this thread was made plus the other parts of war that kinda don’t fit together but let’s us finish with your reply and move on to real matters at hand which is to discuss war faults granted I still see other tank have some too but no game is perfect just war needs well... some love Anyway I’m done

Please respond

Note: I don’t need to talk out my *** as your saying I’ve been through the ups and downs of this game for roughly 8years I’ve seen Drk dodge aoes like they never existed I’ve done it I’ve seen Pld cheese mechs and revive a healer so he could lb3 the party I’ve seen Warriors clutch the clear cause he said I got this and bloodbath his way to victory so no I never talk out my *** but I give you this I was a bit emotional and for that your have my regrets but don’t think cause of ultimate you and I are on a different scaling cause I’ve seen it and done it

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Ok nice flex I mean ultimate really isn’t relevant Anymore and savage anyone can do now not Like I haven’t savage since HW too so now I’ll retract my last statement Out of respect it was out of line but back to the debate

I wouldn't describe Ultimates as "really isn’t relevant Anymore" they are still the most difficult content in the game and still some people struggle even now. Savage is hit and miss, but a lot of people even struggle with that. Both still deserve some respect in terms of the content it brings, even though savage has become easier over the years.

I think I’m getting what your saying now that we clear some of it up your saying they are all the same cause they can be given to other player and I’m saying no they are not now that we got this part of where we stand let’s go back into what I was getting and you can retort

NF does not = intervention or tbn or Hos especially his and tbn and that be cause they can be dropped on themselves whole mech that changes it’s us and benefits the tank and tbn is even better granted if it break you get a free att I mean I could complain about my cost but this isn’t a drk thread it’s a War thread if NF did any of that I could say yeah those two should be in twine with this but they are in a different group or to be in a compromising position sub group that’s the closet I’ll get but intervention is tied by gauge = not a cd for pld raw and NF tied together that’s a cd no a team buff though it has the workings of it I’ll give you that because of the locking of it to another player And my comment all of the tank abilities like that might as well be all in the same group was just sarcasm sorry flew over someone’s head I guess just because the have 1 true similarity does mean they are but anyway it still doesn’t come close to the other excluding pld which can also cover... does that count too? But anyway even if we go you route it’s still at the lowest of the 4 which is why this thread was made plus the other parts of war that kinda don’t fit together but let’s us finish with your reply and move on to real matters at hand which is to discuss war faults granted I still see other tank have some too but no game is perfect just war needs well... some love Anyway I’m done

Please respond

There isn't much here I need to counter with as this is very much an agree to disagree scenario. Obviously each skill is different, but all four skills carry out the same function when used on another party member other than self. All four mitigate damage on another party member. Each has a unique feature, WAR gets to heal itself plus target member through NF. PLD can buff their Intervention, but only if it lines up, you don't typically go out of your way to buff it, unless required cooldowns will be back up for when you need them. TBN, you've already brought up, personally the cost is justified imo, so as to not abuse a cheaper cost for flood/edge, and it also has the shortest recast timer of all four. HoS can apply it's BS on top of the 15%, only while under the effect of BS. And, all have a unique trade-off to use, NF shares a recast timer with RI, Intervention has a cost of 50 gauge, TBN cost 3,000mp, and prevent a second use on self if use on another and HoS just a recast timer but same as TBN precludes another use until it comes off cooldown, also arguably the weaker of the four imo. As far as I see it, all four skills work in the same capacity with similarities to one another. Therefore I classify them all under one branch, the only exception is TBN and HoS, are treated with a dual classification since they also compare against Sheltron and Raw Intuition.

*side note*: Cover I kinda view as a unique utility skill along the same lines as Passage of Arms, mostly as it's a redirect of damage, not a damage mitigation skill outright.

I can understand wanting improvements for WAR, but NF I do not agree with needing any sort of change, I genuinely believe requiring a party member keeps the skill balanced, to use Clemency as a point to argue, it's very potent but requires MP and a GCD to use so requires a heavy cost for a large amount of healing, NF being less, but still absurd levels for how frequent it can be used, targeting requirement in my eyes seems fair. Honestly I believe WAR requires a full rework and the removal of current IR on the whole and redesigned is more vital for the job to make it less boring to play and not the odd child out with the guaranteed crit DH mechanic, preventing it sharing the actual BiS with the other three tanks but to name a couple problems with the job.

Note: I don’t need to talk out my *** as your saying I’ve been through the ups and downs of this game for roughly 8years I’ve seen Drk dodge aoes like they never existed I’ve done it I’ve seen Pld cheese mechs and revive a healer so he could lb3 the party I’ve seen Warriors clutch the clear cause he said I got this and bloodbath his way to victory so no I never talk out my *** but I give you this I was a bit emotional and for that your have my regrets but don’t think cause of ultimate you and I are on a different scaling cause I’ve seen it and done it

Tbh, you did p*** me off ngl, and I've played since the beginning of HW, so I've seen and done it all from that point onwards, and only thing I won't take your word on here is, "I’ve seen Pld cheese mechs and revive a healer so he could lb3 the party". Simply because Raise was traited on WHM to allow combat raise, a trait which paladin did not gain access to. As you did p*** me off, by insulting me, of course, I was not going to be polite in my response, and I used my ultimate and savage accolades as a counter point to your "lol do you even tank".

[Hierro]

no game is perfect just war needs well... some love

Tackling that mess of a run-on sentence is no easy task. I'm not even going to bother! Bro, you need to learn about your periods, commas, and other punctuation marks.