WAR needs love

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

This is all that you had to say.... Accepting the fact that out of ALL the tanks warrior is the one that needs the most attention. I think everyone can honestly agree they would play others knowing how well they play compared to warrior.

Can we not? Or am I just trying to get all the masses to agree that warrior is perfect and doesn't need work?

I will say this again: " I was crucified for mentioning this in a previous post!"

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ior-clunkyness

And it was the same people defending without a justified conversation to discuss the OP. Maybe this is why i'm always disappointed by these forums when I ask for a simple discussion and peoples thoughts.

Some people just have to strong opinions and refuse to accept that warrior needs work, and will defend it until SE changes it. Sit there chant "This is the way"

Well yea what else is there to say, the job is boring and uninteresting and makes gearing an issue if you want to be an omnitank, you have to sacrifice DH because of one problem skill, Inner Release. Inner release is the main reason why Warrior can't naturally evolve the same way Paladin did. The devs put all their eggs in one basket, built the job around one skill, then further cemented this with Nascent Chaos. Outside of the burst, it's spam combo with the occasional Fell Cleave until IR comes up again, with only one oGCD to keep on cooldown to manage.

"Can we not?", what exactly? At what point did I accuse you of saying, "just trying to get all the masses to agree that warrior is perfect and doesn't need work?", I accused you of failing to actually read peoples points and chose to dismiss said points as "defending without a justified conversation", because they do not align with your view.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I will say this again: " I was crucified for mentioning this in a previous post!"

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ior-clunkyness

And it was the same people defending without a justified conversation to discuss the OP. Maybe this is why i'm always disappointed by these forums when I ask for a simple discussion and peoples thoughts.

Some people just have to strong opinions and refuse to accept that warrior needs work, and will defend it until SE changes it. Sit there chant "This is the way"

I'll humor you on this one and explain what the main issue is with your OP.

Your suggestion is not bad, having recovery / lifesteal tools on WAR is perfectly normal to cement its HP-Tank(-esque) role. The problem in your OP is that you complain about Nascent Flash and would trade that in for your idea.

Shadowbringers added various skills to the tanks to put them on equal footing - PLD got a gapcloser, DRK got an AOE mitigation (that isn't Reprisal) and WAR got a single-target party mitigation in the form of Nascent Flash. To take out Nascent Flash for your idea would mean you replace a ST-party mitigation tool for a recovery tool that is also an AOE party tool (if combined with Thrill of Battle, a personal cooldown no less). Those are all heals, no mitigation.

On first glance, sure there is "no harm done" if WAR goes back to being the only tank who can't support another tank in mitigation, but to say I wouldn't miss Nascent Flash's -10% mitigation on a party member would be like saying I don't use Reprisal for tankbuster / auto attack mitigation (which I do ever since Stormblood).

That being said, unpopular opinion - Nascent Flash is better than Bloodbath (discounting Nascent Glint Bonus). Sure, WAR's Bloodbath at 90s recast / 30s duration had an overall higher uptime than Nascent Flash (25s recast / 6s duration; 30s duration every 125s), but Bloodbath was a lot less flexible because of the recast, while Nascent Flash can be activated more freely and more targetted around key points of incoming damage. Furthermore, you can time your Nascent Flash usage around yourself having damage cooldowns / combo finishers ready to increase the efficiency.

The only downside of Nascent Flash is that you cannot use it solo, which is a non-issue because overworld / solo instance content doesn't hit hard enough that Storm's Path + Equilibrium + Thrill + chocobo / instance buff won't heal sufficiently.

The ONLY reason I can see Nascent Flash making the targetting of a party member optional is to ease the use for self-healing without macros; solo content isn't a reason for doing this though. Exception: PVP Nascent Flash. Would be cool if you could use that without a party member, but that is purely because I tend to like Rivalwings and dueling arena a lot, so even then not that much of a biggie.

TL;DR: Don't sacrifice Nascent Flash for your idea. It is a good cooldown.

[ReiMakoto]

I dont understand the clunkyness argument for nascent flash anyway, its not like warriors have loads of off globals they need to use and its also not like targetting someone else is particularly hard.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I dont understand the clunkyness argument for nascent flash anyway, its not like warriors have loads of off globals they need to use and its also not like targetting someone else is particularly hard.

Ngl, I use <2> or <mouseover> macros with it. It is annoying and usually the times you intend to press it you also press other defenses or maybe Inner Release / Infuriate next to NF. It isn't backbreaking, but I can see why it annoys people.

[Sqwall]

I'm going back and forth on the forums here and reading a lot of contradictory things.

And for what I can summarize is this:

We believe the idea of Nascent Flash is to keep the warrior alive.

When all of the opinions lean more towards it's ONLY intention is for OT ability to put on the main tank. This seems logical given the mitigation and healing factor.

But why do we use it for AOE pulls when we ourselves get NO mitigation and just straight insane heals?

Is this where the problem with the skill is coming into play for me? I can understand the use of placing it on the MT in a raid for mitigation and heals, because you can really throw out some crazy OS moment healing.

BUTTTT when i'm in a dungeon or MT a raid it is so much more beneficial to pop Raw Intuition. Outside of AOE pulls it's pretty much meh. If I'm off tank then yeah it's great, but won't save me in a dire need moment if I have to target someone low on HP that's in range.

Man i'm glad PLD doesn't need this level of attention. It's perfect the way it is

[Launched]

BUTTTT when i'm in a dungeon or MT a raid it is so much more beneficial to pop Raw Intuition. Outside of AOE pulls it's pretty much meh. If I'm off tank then yeah it's great, but won't save me in a dire need moment if I have to target someone low on HP that's in range.

Nope, that's completely wrong. In pretty much every situation you'll be able to heal more HP with Nascent than you'll mitigate with Raw Intuition.



You're not taking a 150k+ tankbuster every 25s to outweigh an average 28k healing. Properly using NF lets you go a long time without needing heals from a healer.

[Vatom]

I dont understand the clunkyness argument for nascent flash anyway, its not like warriors have loads of off globals they need to use and its also not like targetting someone else is particularly hard.

Not to seem like I’m insulting you but it feels like you just skimmed the thread that argument was just about similarities not really anything more also who said to get rid of NF I think the concept it good I just feel they should break off of raw as a minimum fix total fix in my eyes would be to allow it to be used on yourself NF isn’t hard to use idk where the thought came from keep it where you target other cool but like dragoon’s eye (cause I forget the actual term) allow it to be self it’s nit a new concept just doing what they did this whole expansion transfer a mech from one class to the other

[Ultimatecalibur]

I dont understand the clunkyness argument for nascent flash anyway, its not like warriors have loads of off globals they need to use and its also not like targetting someone else is particularly hard.

I believe all the clunkiness complaints are tied to desires to use it as a self-buff rather than as the intervention/cover equivalent it is intended to be.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I believe all the clunkiness complaints are tied to desires to use it as a self-buff rather than as the intervention/cover equivalent it is intended to be.

In the essence, yes, but only in situations where applying to Nascent Glint to someone else provides literally zero benefit by virtue of the situation you may be in. As in, if there is no swapbuster / doublebuster / double autoattacks / shared busters happening, as in no moment where Nascent Glint actually does a thing, why should we still need to press it on someone else just to use it for the self-benefit of this dual purpose skill?

Making it optional just rids off the need to use macros or swap targets manually to apply the buff. Isn't the first time we have dual-purpose skills either, yet Nascent Flash is the only one that actually limits the self-benefit by requiring a target that isn't yourself. What the "intention" is matters little since they literally gave it a self-benefit along with the "intended" effect.

That being said, Dragon Sight worked identically to how Nascent Flash works now, yet got changed to making the Right Eye buff application optional, not mandatory.

Would you still get a benefit to apply it to someone else at every use? Of course you would, yet they decided to give you the option to do not do so.
Would Nascent Flash give their target a benefit at every use? No it wouldn't, yet it is mandatory.

Other skills that were allowed to be used on yourself since Shadowbringers:
- Deployment Tactics to spread a self-applied Adloqium
- Excogitation (for whatever reason)

Also just a personal gripe - it annoys me a bit that everytime this gets brought up, ppl bring up the "intention" argument for Nascent Flash's introduction, despite being dual-purpose from the very beginning. What gives? Why are we so hell-bent on the idea that abilities need to conform into one specific ability type instead of multiple?

[Nedkel]

I dont understand the clunkyness argument for nascent flash anyway, its not like warriors have loads of off globals they need to use and its also not like targetting someone else is particularly hard.

I want you to change into warrior and try to execute this: any GCD > Infuriate > nascent flash > inner chaos
You will not do it without clipping.