WAR needs love

[Liam_Harper]

At least DRK (while indeed far too simple) has some oGcd's. War's entire ST dps toolkit fits on 9 buttons. It's basically the "baby's first tank" of the four.

Am I the only one disappointed they removed the 1% crit passive per 10 beast guage too?

So the skill median of tanks has indeed dropped with more new tanks having little idea what they are doing even on the easy tanks

Both tanks and healers.

It's baffling seeing tanks 3-4k below what they should be when they have 9 buttons to manage and 3-4 busters the entire fight, or healers at 80 spamming the wrong GcD heals doing a quarter their potential damage when they only have 2 buttons to handle. Tank and healer roles have both attracted the inexperienced player, who click with it because it feels miles easier than dps, then defend playing poorly with "I'm not a dps, I'm meant to hold agro/heal", but they don't even do that well because they were never interested in learning to play well in the first place.

They ripped tank/healer away from the veterans and gave them to those players.

[millktea]

No, Heirro is right. WAR is fine compared to its tank brethren.

Just looking at the "played" numbers doesn't help. In fact, we could construe the number of GNB parses as GNB being the 2nd worst/least enjoyable tank. Yet, the most recent poll from reddit and also recent forum thread GNB is one of the most liked job of all FF14 ShB jobs right now.
GNB also having the highest representation of all tanks for speed kills says it's favored.

As Heirro said:


Also, WAR losing the most unique design mechanics, aestetics, and -last, but not least- dps from SB to ShB has hurt those "WAR mains". (I am using quotation mark on purpose bc it's mostly people jump off of WAR who enjoyed being the highest dps tank.)

I would've also rather enjoyed enhanced tank dynamics on every other tank instead of getting cuts on WAR identity, but here we are.

Says Hierro is right and that warrior is fine, then goes off about GNB. What are you arguing? This doesn't explain how WAR is fine.

Warrior is the least favored. Warrior is not popular on social media.

Warrior lost all its utility, its unique features, its party synergy, and its damage (and deliverance, a strong part of its identity). It didn't get anything new and lost almost everything.

Warrior wastes 3 gcds just to do an aoe rotation. You waste 6 gcds to do 1 beast skill in aoe, then 4gcds (6, 4, 6). It only refreshes 10s, but you lose nearly 3s just applying it, making 4 to 6gcds just to have a comfortable time to execute IR. This is atrocious in dungeons. If its 2 targets, war uses fell cleave. Wow, even in aoe, they can't escape FC. So war has to wait 4/6 gcds to do 1 Beast ability, but has no variance unless its 3 enemies? When it used to be decimate?

Holmgang duration is based on the target. If you apply it and the enemy dies 1s later, that holmgang doesn't get the rest 7s duration.

WAR doesn't bring enough damage, utility, nor aesthetic to justify it being "fine". And if you want to talk about war mains, hi. We said its not fine.

And warrior needs to be top dps. It even still has the punishment as if it is (if you wanna balance). A lot of wars stopped being war because removing its damage is wrong, especially with what yoshida exclusively stated. They also don't play it in protest.

Also, I already had this type of thread made in AUGUST 2019, why are you splitting? We should all be in the same thread. Sigh

[ArianeEwah]

Says Hierro is right and that warrior is fine, then goes off about GNB. What are you arguing? This doesn't explain how WAR is fine.

You clearly didn't read (as in understand) what I wrote if that is your answer to this.

Anuri was going on about WAR being the least played tank via logs-statistics, thus it's the least favored tank? IF we were to follow that reason GNB would be 2nd least fav tank, but polls and forum posts say otherwise. DRK also recieves bad reviews as being the "war clone", yet it's the 2nd most play tank. The amount of "played" does not define whether a job is fine/favored or not.
"I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself" -W. Churchill

Warrior is fine COMPARED to its tank brethren. It plays just as well as the other tanks.
It's the current iteration of warrior that is NOT FINE, compared to its previous iterations. Yet, this is exactly what Hierro said. Tanks in general are in need of a rework/-design. It isn't a simple "just WAR" thing, it affects all tanks. Not equally, but it's wrong to say every tank is fine except WAR.
If anything WAR was already bad designed before ShB hit. But hey, it had the highest dps, so it was fine then? That's just hypocritical.

[Kabooa]

If anything WAR was already bad designed before ShB hit. But hey, it had the highest dps, so it was fine then? That's just hypocritical.

That's the part that always got me.

Everyone: "Warrior is great, don't change anything."
SE: Doesn't change anything.
Everyone: Surprised Pikachu

[Satarn]

Warrior lost all its utility, its unique features, its party synergy, and its damage (and deliverance, a strong part of its identity). It didn't get anything new and lost almost everything.

WHAT utility has WAR lost? Raid-wide mitigation? Nah, Shake it Off has been buffed twice in SHB. Self healing? Nope, Equilibrium is the same and just because you don't like Nascent Flash, doesn't change that it's both more accessible than IB/SS were due to not requiring stance, but also synergizes with WAR's burst instead of gimping it. Personal mitigation? Nuh-uh, Vengeance is the same, Thrill got buffed and Intuition is boring, but more powerful. Invulnerability? Holmgang's cd is longer, but it's also lost all of its old downsides, including the short duration.

WAR actually gained utility, both due to making Shake way easier to use and stronger, as well as gaining an off-tank support skill, something they never had before.

And warrior needs to be top dps.

Why? WAR has the best personal mitigation/costless self-sustain next to DRK and does slightly more dps than it in most fights - makes sense to me. They both do only marginally worse than PLD/GNB anyways, both of which have inferior personal defenses.

You don't like that at top performance WAR does less than healers? So do all tanks - it's not a WAR issue, that's a general tank/healer damage issue if anything.

WAR is in a shit state gameplay-wise, yes, but DRK is just as bad and I would argue GNB is too. The tank design in SHB is just overall an uninspired, dumbed down pile of garbage, but making up balance issues that aren't there won't help it - if anything it just drowns out the legitimate, well thought-out feedback and confuses devs into - probably - homogenizing everything even further because "things are still not balanced".

Also being "the least played within role" doesn't mean it's terrible - something always has to be the lowest. Hell, it doesn't even mean it's the worst by a small margin, since AST is currently the least played healer, despite being the best in terms of both rDPS and healing output. Clear rates alone are a rather stupid metric to go by, both in terms of balance and enjoyment, which is probably why SE has such a hard time getting things right from only looking at them. Not saying they don't matter at all mind you, but it's merely one of many variables that should be considered.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Not only are the (dps) rotations rather dull and simple as well as aggro management becoming a joke, but mitigation is also risible. As long as a tank sits at max HP, a simple CD (like Sheltron or HoS) is enough for tank busters. This puts a heavy burden on healers, but the game doesn't really give you feedback about your mitigation skills. The tank mastery makes tanking imo far too easy. I remember that I actually had to create a cooldown rotation map, so I could optimize my dps, I had no other choice or we wouldn't hit dps check. Today's tanks can't optimize dps by mapping their cooldowns, yet this influx of tanks blame it on healers when they die or hit enrage.

That is a fight design factor rather than tank mastery being to good. Tank Busters currently are spread out just enough that you only need to rotate between Rampart and the job's 30% to cover them and tank swaps are caused by mechanics rather than by tank cooldowns. Factor in that every tank now has a 20% cooldown with a <=30s recast and you don't need to plan for tank busters as you will always have your short cooldown (Shell/RI/HoS/TBN).

[SpiralMask]

my main complaint on the WAR front is that DRK was basically made into a better-feeling clone of it, with the same core rotation (all the way down to infuriate and inner release) and a million ogcds to weave pretty freely (gutting the original class in the process), while WAR got no changes except a small three-hit heal for you and a mandatory ally and a new animation for fell cleave periodically.

it's certainly still fun and playable (and my go-to for soloing content with it's selfheals (minus nascent flash since that doesn't work solo)), just kinda neglected?

[AncientCrystal]

Job has like the lowest button count of all jobs. The whole Fell Cleave a million times is whack. Job needs a complete overhaul.

Oh, and bring back Butcher's Block.

[Ripax]

When WAR crit became part of the attacks over criting them, it made me lose the will of playing it... my WHM do more damage with Afflatus than my WAR with Nascent flash...