SCH need buffs

[Billythepancake]

I kinda want separate Aether stacks, offensive and defensive.
Why do we have to give up on healing to use Energy Drain?
I dunno about AST because I am still just at 72 with it and haven't played it since forever but with WHM I don't feel like I have to sacrifice healing to dps, if anything it's the opposite because of the Lily system.

3 Offensive and 3 Defensive Aether stacks would solve that.

I prefer having them share, it gives you a reason to think on how to manage your stacks. They tried making aetherflow defensive only and it flat out just did not work, hence why they gave ED back (though I'm sure they'll still end up trying to take it away again in 6.0). Having defense and offense tied to it gives it a sense of risk and reward, as well as a sense of reward for actually managing your stacks well.

[Seraphor]

I kinda want separate Aether stacks, offensive and defensive.
Why do we have to give up on healing to use Energy Drain?
I dunno about AST because I am still just at 72 with it and haven't played it since forever but with WHM I don't feel like I have to sacrifice healing to dps, if anything it's the opposite because of the Lily system.

3 Offensive and 3 Defensive Aether stacks would solve that.

Energy Drain was re-added after ShB's released due to complaints that people had nothing to spend Aether stacks on when no healing was required.
This would be the same situation. When no healing is required those 'defensive stacks' would sit there as a wasted resource.
In addition those 'offensive stacks' would be wasted when capped, forcing you to spend them on dps skills when maxed out, which may conflict with the amount of healing required.

[Kolsykol]

Energy Drain was re-added after ShB's released due to complaints that people had nothing to spend Aether stacks on when no healing was required.
This would be the same situation. When no healing is required those 'defensive stacks' would sit there as a wasted resource.
In addition those 'offensive stacks' would be wasted when capped, forcing you to spend them on dps skills when maxed out, which may conflict with the amount of healing required.

My problem is just that I have to sacrifice healing for the sake of damage which I don't on WHM and WHM is already stronger on top of that. Quite the opposite healing = more damage on WHM.
I don't think that it's an interesting decision, especially when the healing and damage isn't even that impressive to begin with.
I also don't really see the problem with '' wasted resources '', if anything it'd just incentivize you to use your healing Aether spenders more often instead of sitting on them.

Maybe in dungeons in smaller pulls it'd be a problem but I don't think so in endgame content.
I mean in dungeons I have to throw out Lily's as to not cap out just for the sake of doing something too.

If anything I sorta feel more like it's wasted now when they're tied because it feels like I am just all like '' nothing to do and I've got Aether, okay I gotta spend them somehow ''.
But if they were separate they'd just be more like a DPS cooldown tied to the healing Aether.

[Billythepancake]

My problem is just that I have to sacrifice healing for the sake of damage which I don't on WHM and WHM is already stronger on top of that. Quite the opposite healing = more damage on WHM.
I don't think that it's an interesting decision, especially when the healing and damage isn't even that impressive to begin with.
I also don't really see the problem with '' wasted resources '', if anything it'd just incentivize you to use your Aether spenders more often instead of sitting on them.

You absolutely do sacrifice damage for healing on WHM. Misery = 900 potency over 4 GCDs 4 glares = 1200 potency over 4GCDs.

[Seraphor]

My problem is just that I have to sacrifice healing for the sake of damage which I don't on WHM and WHM is already stronger on top of that. Quite the opposite healing = more damage on WHM.
I don't think that it's an interesting decision, especially when the healing and damage isn't even that impressive to begin with.
I also don't really see the problem with '' wasted resources '', if anything it'd just incentivize you to use your healing Aether spenders more often instead of sitting on them.

Maybe in dungeons in smaller pulls it'd be a problem but I don't think so in endgame content.
I mean in dungeons I have to throw out Lily's as to not cap out just for the sake of doing it something too.

Sure, you could just spend the extra Aetherflow it on a Lustrate, but SCH players complained that wasn't interesting enough and too similar to WHM's new kit without the feed-in towards dps (Misery)

[Mhaeric]

Sure, you could just spend the extra Aetherflow it on a Lustrate, but SCH players complained that wasn't interesting enough and too similar to WHM's new kit without the feed-in towards dps (Misery)

And most of the time you didn't need the Lustrate, so you were either sitting on Aetherflow stacks, wasting a stack on a healing ability that did nothing or overwriting the stacks with new ones.

[Kolsykol]

You absolutely do sacrifice damage for healing on WHM. Misery = 900 potency over 4 GCDs 4 glares = 1200 potency over 4GCDs.

I mean healing is part of your job, and your Lily spenders are strong heals.
Are you just assuming that there is no healing going on at all?

The difference is that you're healing AND building up to Misery ( not to mention Assize which is both at the same time and doesn't cost you anything AND can be weaved in because it's an OGCD ).
But with SCH you have to sacrifice healing power for pretty puny damage.
I find that with the Lily's it just naturally builds up to Misery.

I don't really get why people here are so opposed to just getting some more healing power and not having to sacrifice it for some all things considered pretty low damage OGCD's.
Sure if no one is taking any real damage and you don't have to heal then you may not use all of those 3 stacks until Aetherflow is off cooldown but I really don't see the problem with that.
Maybe if Energy Drain was more impressive it'd feel more impactful but it isn't very powerful, if anything to me it sorta just feels like a band-aid.

Sure, you could just spend the extra Aetherflow it on a Lustrate, but SCH players complained that wasn't interesting enough and too similar to WHM's new kit without the feed-in towards dps (Misery)

Or Sacred Soil.
I dunno, to me it honestly sounds like people are hoarding them lol.
If SCH were still the kings of healer dps then maybe I could see the argument that having you sacrifice something would be necessary.
All that you end up doing is throwing them at Energy Drain, is that really all that fun?
Even with my suggestion you could still have Energy Drain use those defensive stacks once the offensive ones are gone, all that it'd do is give you more to do and give you more Gauge too and it'd simply take those offensive ones first.
And at least it'd be a bit more power.

[Billythepancake]

I mean healing is part of your job, and your Lily spenders are strong heals.
Are you just assuming that there is no healing going on at all?

The difference is that you're healing AND building up to Misery ( not to mention Assize which is both at the same time and doesn't cost you anything AND can be weaved in because it's an OGCD ).
But with SCH you have to sacrifice healing power for pretty puny damage.
I find that with the Lily's it just naturally builds up to Misery.

I don't really get why people here are so opposed to just getting some more healing power and not having to sacrifice it for some all things considered pretty low damage OGCD's.
Sure if no one is taking any real damage and you don't have to heal then you may not use all of those 3 stacks until Aetherflow is off cooldown but I really don't see the problem with that.
Maybe if Energy Drain was more impressive it'd feel more impactful but it isn't very powerful, if anything to me it sorta just feels like a band-aid.
All that you end up doing is throwing them at Energy Drain, is that really all that fun?
Even with my suggestion you could still have Energy Drain use those defensive stacks once the offensive ones are gone, all that it'd do is give you more to do and give you more Gauge too and it'd simply take those offensive ones first.

I'm against it because I like risk and reward gameplay. Do I risk this energy drain to get more damage + getting more mana or do I save it for an indom? And no, I don't think current SCH is fun, I think it's boring as hell with the changes they've made and have been VERY vocal about it. Taking away what little risk it still has left is a terrible idea.

[EaMett]

You absolutely do sacrifice damage for healing on WHM. Misery = 900 potency over 4 GCDs 4 glares = 1200 potency over 4GCDs.

Bouncing off of this comment to throw a bit more info out.

That's a loss of 25% damage (and 8 weaving slots). The cost of 4 ogcds on SCH is about 80 potency per instance so total of 320 loss in the place of 4 broils = 1120 so a loss of ~29% damage (and potentially 4 weaving slots).
So roughly speaking afflatus skills are meant to work like ogcds when it comes to healing opportunity vs cost of healing (cost in dps). The loss of ED is however a direct loss of 150pot. In our scenario it's times 4 so 600 pot. This means you technically lose a potential 920 pot out of 1120(broils). So a loss of 82% dps (to be clear this is between full broil and 4 stacks for healing).

Of course this is in a vacuum. We haven't even looked at double weaves, organic weaving windows from dots, or taken account of movement and non aetherflow healing ogcds for sch. But this is in part why sch comps will generally have the sch use their stacks for healing only when all other options are unavailable or a solid burst is required.

I don't really get why people here are so opposed to just getting some more healing power and not having to sacrifice it for some all things considered pretty low damage OGCD's.
Sure if no one is taking any real damage and you don't have to heal then you may not use all of those 3 stacks until Aetherflow is off cooldown but I really don't see the problem with that.
Maybe if Energy Drain was more impressive it'd feel more impactful but it isn't very powerful, if anything to me it sorta just feels like a band-aid.

ED accounts roughly for about 8% of dps on sch. So we're looking at a little under 1k dps. That's significant enough imo. Nothing would make sch even more boring than not being able to gauge risk reward and figure out how to best use your stacks. Especially considering we already barely ever need our stacks for healing anyways.

[EaMett]

And most of the time you didn't need the Lustrate, so you were either sitting on Aetherflow stacks, wasting a stack on a healing ability that did nothing or overwriting the stacks with new ones.

You generally wouldn't even Aetherflow unless you had an open weaving window in bio. In the early days of titania ex and emanation ex, before we got ED back, you would essentially not use AF much if at all. It would always be off cooldown with stacks to spare and the faerie covered most of the healing. Not only that but it totally negated dissipation since you never had any upside to having extra stacks. We complained about many things and ED is the only thing they gave us back. It was for a reason.