SCH need buffs

[Kolsykol]

I kinda want separate Aether stacks, offensive and defensive.
Why do we have to give up on healing to use Energy Drain?
I dunno about AST because I am still just at 72 with it and haven't played it since forever but with WHM I don't feel like I have to sacrifice healing to dps, if anything it's the opposite because of the Lily system.

3 Offensive and 3 Defensive Aether stacks would solve that.

[Billythepancake]

I kinda want separate Aether stacks, offensive and defensive.
Why do we have to give up on healing to use Energy Drain?
I dunno about AST because I am still just at 72 with it and haven't played it since forever but with WHM I don't feel like I have to sacrifice healing to dps, if anything it's the opposite because of the Lily system.

3 Offensive and 3 Defensive Aether stacks would solve that.

I prefer having them share, it gives you a reason to think on how to manage your stacks. They tried making aetherflow defensive only and it flat out just did not work, hence why they gave ED back (though I'm sure they'll still end up trying to take it away again in 6.0). Having defense and offense tied to it gives it a sense of risk and reward, as well as a sense of reward for actually managing your stacks well.

[Seraphor]

I kinda want separate Aether stacks, offensive and defensive.
Why do we have to give up on healing to use Energy Drain?
I dunno about AST because I am still just at 72 with it and haven't played it since forever but with WHM I don't feel like I have to sacrifice healing to dps, if anything it's the opposite because of the Lily system.

3 Offensive and 3 Defensive Aether stacks would solve that.

Energy Drain was re-added after ShB's released due to complaints that people had nothing to spend Aether stacks on when no healing was required.
This would be the same situation. When no healing is required those 'defensive stacks' would sit there as a wasted resource.
In addition those 'offensive stacks' would be wasted when capped, forcing you to spend them on dps skills when maxed out, which may conflict with the amount of healing required.

[Kolsykol]

Energy Drain was re-added after ShB's released due to complaints that people had nothing to spend Aether stacks on when no healing was required.
This would be the same situation. When no healing is required those 'defensive stacks' would sit there as a wasted resource.
In addition those 'offensive stacks' would be wasted when capped, forcing you to spend them on dps skills when maxed out, which may conflict with the amount of healing required.

My problem is just that I have to sacrifice healing for the sake of damage which I don't on WHM and WHM is already stronger on top of that. Quite the opposite healing = more damage on WHM.
I don't think that it's an interesting decision, especially when the healing and damage isn't even that impressive to begin with.
I also don't really see the problem with '' wasted resources '', if anything it'd just incentivize you to use your healing Aether spenders more often instead of sitting on them.

Maybe in dungeons in smaller pulls it'd be a problem but I don't think so in endgame content.
I mean in dungeons I have to throw out Lily's as to not cap out just for the sake of doing something too.

If anything I sorta feel more like it's wasted now when they're tied because it feels like I am just all like '' nothing to do and I've got Aether, okay I gotta spend them somehow ''.
But if they were separate they'd just be more like a DPS cooldown tied to the healing Aether.

[Billythepancake]

My problem is just that I have to sacrifice healing for the sake of damage which I don't on WHM and WHM is already stronger on top of that. Quite the opposite healing = more damage on WHM.
I don't think that it's an interesting decision, especially when the healing and damage isn't even that impressive to begin with.
I also don't really see the problem with '' wasted resources '', if anything it'd just incentivize you to use your Aether spenders more often instead of sitting on them.

You absolutely do sacrifice damage for healing on WHM. Misery = 900 potency over 4 GCDs 4 glares = 1200 potency over 4GCDs.

[Kolsykol]

You absolutely do sacrifice damage for healing on WHM. Misery = 900 potency over 4 GCDs 4 glares = 1200 potency over 4GCDs.

I mean healing is part of your job, and your Lily spenders are strong heals.
Are you just assuming that there is no healing going on at all?

The difference is that you're healing AND building up to Misery ( not to mention Assize which is both at the same time and doesn't cost you anything AND can be weaved in because it's an OGCD ).
But with SCH you have to sacrifice healing power for pretty puny damage.
I find that with the Lily's it just naturally builds up to Misery.

I don't really get why people here are so opposed to just getting some more healing power and not having to sacrifice it for some all things considered pretty low damage OGCD's.
Sure if no one is taking any real damage and you don't have to heal then you may not use all of those 3 stacks until Aetherflow is off cooldown but I really don't see the problem with that.
Maybe if Energy Drain was more impressive it'd feel more impactful but it isn't very powerful, if anything to me it sorta just feels like a band-aid.

Sure, you could just spend the extra Aetherflow it on a Lustrate, but SCH players complained that wasn't interesting enough and too similar to WHM's new kit without the feed-in towards dps (Misery)

Or Sacred Soil.
I dunno, to me it honestly sounds like people are hoarding them lol.
If SCH were still the kings of healer dps then maybe I could see the argument that having you sacrifice something would be necessary.
All that you end up doing is throwing them at Energy Drain, is that really all that fun?
Even with my suggestion you could still have Energy Drain use those defensive stacks once the offensive ones are gone, all that it'd do is give you more to do and give you more Gauge too and it'd simply take those offensive ones first.
And at least it'd be a bit more power.

[Billythepancake]

I mean healing is part of your job, and your Lily spenders are strong heals.
Are you just assuming that there is no healing going on at all?

The difference is that you're healing AND building up to Misery ( not to mention Assize which is both at the same time and doesn't cost you anything AND can be weaved in because it's an OGCD ).
But with SCH you have to sacrifice healing power for pretty puny damage.
I find that with the Lily's it just naturally builds up to Misery.

I don't really get why people here are so opposed to just getting some more healing power and not having to sacrifice it for some all things considered pretty low damage OGCD's.
Sure if no one is taking any real damage and you don't have to heal then you may not use all of those 3 stacks until Aetherflow is off cooldown but I really don't see the problem with that.
Maybe if Energy Drain was more impressive it'd feel more impactful but it isn't very powerful, if anything to me it sorta just feels like a band-aid.
All that you end up doing is throwing them at Energy Drain, is that really all that fun?
Even with my suggestion you could still have Energy Drain use those defensive stacks once the offensive ones are gone, all that it'd do is give you more to do and give you more Gauge too and it'd simply take those offensive ones first.

I'm against it because I like risk and reward gameplay. Do I risk this energy drain to get more damage + getting more mana or do I save it for an indom? And no, I don't think current SCH is fun, I think it's boring as hell with the changes they've made and have been VERY vocal about it. Taking away what little risk it still has left is a terrible idea.

[Sloprano]

All that you end up doing is throwing them at Energy Drain, is that really all that fun?

Like Broil III, just pressing ED several times in a row times in a row isn't all that fun. But it was something, desperately something. When we had the choice between Lustrate and Indom vs. ED and Bane with Sacred Soil being the wild card I found myself trying to plan ahead about it's usage in packs. Falls quite flat on bosses, but now the balance on "use it for healing or damage/mp regen" is disproportionate toward healing. Excog and Sacred Soil always gets a Stack each every AF minute for just how much they heal and in solo or situations you are on top of falls down to pressing ED three times in a row.

The same reason I liked the idea of having two gauges: Fey Dawn and Fey Dusk, one for Eos (healing, Fey Blessing and Union) and one for Selene, that you could spend on offence or buffs. Both would increase by 10 from AF use, but Dusk Fey would also increase with Broils and dot ticks. So you could get Dusk faster but also spend it quicker while Dawn was as we have now. I discarded the thought because then our current gauge would still be at 100% most of the time.

So would rather that tie into Aetherflow usage being a choice, tough or easy depending on the situation, and add things like spend an AF that has no benefit other than give 50 Fey Gauge, and then of course also add something to spend it on faster. Like Eos and Selene used to be, let every resource at our disposal have some direct opposites.

It is the idea that we would have as many healing choices as damage or utility choices per AF stack that at first glance it's obvious you save them for healing going in first time and the damage/utility for solo. But then as repetition sets in you start finding usage for the damage/utility in packs and on bosses as you grow on the job.

[Kolsykol]

Like Broil III, just pressing ED several times in a row times in a row isn't all that fun. But it was something, desperately something. When we had the choice between Lustrate and Indom vs. ED and Bane with Sacred Soil being the wild card I found myself trying to plan ahead about it's usage in packs. Falls quite flat on bosses, but now the balance on "use it for healing or damage/mp regen" is disproportionate toward healing. Excog and Sacred Soil always gets a Stack each every AF minute for just how much they heal and in solo or situations you are on top of falls down to pressing ED three times in a row.

The same reason I liked the idea of having two gauges: Fey Dawn and Fey Dusk, one for Eos (healing, Fey Blessing and Union) and one for Selene, that you could spend on offence or buffs. Both would increase by 10 from AF use, but Dusk Fey would also increase with Broils and dot ticks. So you could get Dusk faster but also spend it quicker while Dawn was as we have now. I discarded the thought because then our current gauge would still be at 100% most of the time.

So would rather that tie into Aetherflow usage being a choice, tough or easy depending on the situation, and add things like spend an AF that has no benefit other than give 50 Fey Gauge, and then of course also add something to spend it on faster. Like Eos and Selene used to be, let every resource at our disposal have some direct opposites.

It is the idea that we would have as many healing choices as damage or utility choices per AF stack that at first glance it's obvious you save them for healing going in first time and the damage/utility for solo. But then as repetition sets in you start finding usage for the damage/utility in packs and on bosses as you grow on the job.

I still think that it's more fun than spamming Broil, especially since you can weave it since it's an OGCD.
But it's not a fun choice to make imo and it also costs a healing spell.

Even if you don't need to heal and keep spamming Grace on WHM it doesn't cost a healing spell and still deals more damage than Misery, but if you do use your healing spells then it still leads up to Misery ( which is also an AoE ability on top of that too ) + you have Assize.
That's more interesting at least imo than how Energy Drain works now.

At least with two stacks, one defensive and one offensive it'd be guaranteed damage and something that you could weave in and then the choice could still be there if the defensive ones were consumed afterwards by Energy Drain.

I'm against it because I like risk and reward gameplay. Do I risk this energy drain to get more damage + getting more mana or do I save it for an indom? And no, I don't think current SCH is fun, I think it's boring as hell with the changes they've made and have been VERY vocal about it. Taking away what little risk it still has left is a terrible idea.

Well, we disagree on that.
I think that my suggestion would speed things up a little and make SCH more involved even if just a little.
And with my second suggestion that the Defensive ones could still be consumed the choice and risk would still be there.
You'd simply have 3 guaranteed for Energy Drain and 3 that could be used on both Energy Drain and healing like the ones we have now. Basically 3 new ones on top of the ones we have now, but offensive only.
Even if you keep spamming Grace you're not actually giving up on a charge that can be used for healing, but if you use Energy Drain then you do.
And the choice that is presented isn't really that interesting to begin with imo.

[EaMett]

You absolutely do sacrifice damage for healing on WHM. Misery = 900 potency over 4 GCDs 4 glares = 1200 potency over 4GCDs.

Bouncing off of this comment to throw a bit more info out.

That's a loss of 25% damage (and 8 weaving slots). The cost of 4 ogcds on SCH is about 80 potency per instance so total of 320 loss in the place of 4 broils = 1120 so a loss of ~29% damage (and potentially 4 weaving slots).
So roughly speaking afflatus skills are meant to work like ogcds when it comes to healing opportunity vs cost of healing (cost in dps). The loss of ED is however a direct loss of 150pot. In our scenario it's times 4 so 600 pot. This means you technically lose a potential 920 pot out of 1120(broils). So a loss of 82% dps (to be clear this is between full broil and 4 stacks for healing).

Of course this is in a vacuum. We haven't even looked at double weaves, organic weaving windows from dots, or taken account of movement and non aetherflow healing ogcds for sch. But this is in part why sch comps will generally have the sch use their stacks for healing only when all other options are unavailable or a solid burst is required.

I don't really get why people here are so opposed to just getting some more healing power and not having to sacrifice it for some all things considered pretty low damage OGCD's.
Sure if no one is taking any real damage and you don't have to heal then you may not use all of those 3 stacks until Aetherflow is off cooldown but I really don't see the problem with that.
Maybe if Energy Drain was more impressive it'd feel more impactful but it isn't very powerful, if anything to me it sorta just feels like a band-aid.

ED accounts roughly for about 8% of dps on sch. So we're looking at a little under 1k dps. That's significant enough imo. Nothing would make sch even more boring than not being able to gauge risk reward and figure out how to best use your stacks. Especially considering we already barely ever need our stacks for healing anyways.