Feedback on Expert Recipes:

[Ryaz]

I'm starting to think some of the claims of 95% or more max quality are just good luck streaks. Some of the systems work well, but with all methods, in at least 3/10 crafts I'm getting very bad strings of Hasty fails or 4/6 Rapids failing and it's the difference between 5k and max. You'd either need a rotation with no rng abilities, or a rotation so potent it maxes out even with 2/3 hasties failed. I'll keep trying though.

Reflect has been my preferred opener too, though I've been passing on Ven and trying to catch Rapids on Centered procs.

I fail Hasty Touch so much that I've actively looked for ways to avoid using it outside of Centered. I fail like 75% of my Hasty Touches when Sturdy is the condition. It's scary.

[MN_14]

I don't know... I tried a little bit. But conditions don't seem to pop so easily when I need them, so a lot of times, I tried to bait conditions.... First, I'll just keep hasty spamming until durab is relatively low... around 35 or 30. Then I'll pop WN just to delay it a bit further until the first Pliant procs for Manip. But sometimes, it just doesn't happen, and I have to just hard-boot Manip at 96 CP. Then if Pliant appears, I can WN2. If Pliant comes when WN and Manip are all up, then I'll either MM if the durab is really low, or I'll go Prep Touch, which I found to be very effective under Pliant and WN/WN2. In fact, lately, I prefer Prep Touch over MM -- It's better to secure that large chunk of quality instead of boosting 30 durab which you easily lose from hasty anyway.

You really don't want to HT spam because you'll be hemorrhaging durability far too quickly between conditions. I only straight out HT spam as a desperate final stand when I"m down to my last 74 cp. Unsurprisingly, it almost never works.

There are probably many different effective methods to do these crafts, but for me it's a highly methodical process where there's a reason for each and every skill that I use at any given step. I'm basically baiting conditions but it's almost never a specific one.

I think of the crafting flow as condition utilization where skills used in between a condition is a filler. Because conditions are so powerful, if possible, I try to take advantage of each and every one in some way.

In terms of fillers, there are two primary ones:

Observe - Harmless to durability but costs 7 cp, which adds up big over time.

HT - Costs 0 cp and builds up IQ stacks over a long period of time. Also costs 10 durability which adds up big over a very short period of time.

So I try to place HTs in places where it will do the least damage to my synth. It could be under a specific condition or it might not be. You'll need to use a whole ton of them though to build those IQ stacks slowly while using other skills along the way to help speed things along if cp permits.

Since the strategy is to bait conditions, burning either cp or durability = very bad (unless you can guarantee a success).

In low CP situations, I have to be very careful with my fillers because I can't afford for either durability or cp to drain too quickly before a possible bailout from a condition.

As a side note, I can tell that I'm absolutely horribly over-geared at almost 2600 control with food. That helps too.

[Caimie_Tsukino]

You really don't want to HT spam because you'll be hemorrhaging durability far too quickly between conditions. I only straight out HT spam as a desperate final stand when I"m down to my last 74 cp. Unsurprisingly, it almost never works.

There are probably many different effective methods to do these crafts, but for me it's a highly methodical process where there's a reason for each and every skill that I use at any given step. I'm basically baiting conditions but it's almost never a specific one.

I think of the crafting flow as condition utilization where skills used in between a condition is a filler. Because conditions are so powerful, if possible, I try to take advantage of each and every one in some way.

In terms of fillers, there are two primary ones:

Observe - Harmless to durability but costs 7 cp, which adds up big over time.

HT - Costs 0 cp and builds up IQ stacks over a long period of time. Also costs 10 durability which adds up big over a very short period of time.

So I try to place HTs in places where it will do the least damage to my synth. It could be under a specific condition or it might not be. You'll need to use a whole ton of them though to build those IQ stacks slowly while using other skills along the way to help speed things along if cp permits.

Since the strategy is to bait conditions, burning either cp or durability = very bad (unless you can guarantee a success).

In low CP situations, I have to be very careful with my fillers because I can't afford for either durability or cp to drain too quickly before a possible bailout from a condition.

As a side note, I can tell that I'm absolutely horribly over-geared at almost 2600 control with food. That helps too.

What's your general approach before your first pliant pops? It's very easy to start working on progress or building IQ stacks, but very soon durab will reach 25 or lower. What's your way to delay it until the pliant? And what do you do if the pliant eventually don't come? I have tried numerous things. Everything works since there's plenty of CP there, but none works great, as all depletes CP fast!

[Ryaz]

Anyone else notice that Rapid Synth with Centered seems to fail just as much as without it? I've actually started to use it ONLY when Centered is up and it fails way more than it should.

[Miminming]

RNG... is your answer to everything... including 13x normal or 6x pliant straight... 8x failed HT and so on...

[Ryaz]

I've started using two byregots in my rotation... seems to be working better. RNG can still completely screw me over, though. Wondering if I could replace the first Byregot's with a Prep Touch. Maybe I'll give it a try.

Edit: So, I'm still working out the kinks, but I've been working on reducing my HT spam as much as possible. After I get my Progress set, when I hit 11 stacks, I get a manipulate going and make sure I have at least 40 durability. Then I Inno > Prudent x 2 (or Precise if it pops) > Great Strides > Prep Touch. This gives me a huge boost in quality. Then my goal is to get Manipulate going again, get to at least 30-40 durability and make sure I have 154 CP left (which isn't difficult unless you get no Good procs for ToT). Then its Inno > Prep x2 > Great Strides > Byregot's.

With the HTs in between from Sturdy/Centered while fishing for Manipulate, it seems to give me great amount of quality and let's me keep things more in my control instead of RNG. I will test it more tomorrow.

[MN_14]

What's your general approach before your first pliant pops? It's very easy to start working on progress or building IQ stacks, but very soon durab will reach 25 or lower. What's your way to delay it until the pliant? And what do you do if the pliant eventually don't come? I have tried numerous things. Everything works since there's plenty of CP there, but none works great, as all depletes CP fast!

I try to minimize my use of cp in the beginning in order to prepare to pay the full cost of the durability restore if necessary. A good percentage of my crafts involves restoring durability at full cost at least once in the craft. Hopefully, by that point, I've also made some significant gains toward building IQ stacks and/or progress through conditions.

It's always a juggle between using observe and HT to keep both CP and durability as high as possible to delay reaching the point where I would be forced into paying the full cost of a durability restore. However, paying the full cost isn't always terrible as I at least know what the cost is and can plan based on that. There are also other ways of managing cp and durability loss. I'm a fan of discounted prudent touches as they're both cp and durability friendly.

What I'm doing is basically RNG management. By alternating between observe and HT, I bait for a ton of conditions while trying to slow down durability and cp loss. I also selective pick places where the HTs will either hurt the least or have a higher chance of success. Unless you are close to finishing your craft, HTs hurt regardless of whether they land or miss.

Since the number of HTs that I use numbers in the dozens per synth, it smooths out HT RNG as well (increases sample size; I largely don't bat an eye when HTs miss under a normal or sturdy condition as I expect a huge % of them to miss) allowing me to handle the full spectrum of below average, average, and above average luck. You have to be able to handle all types and not just average or above average. Crafting has always been balanced for you to be able to handle all except for the absolute 1-5% worst outcomes.

Yes, even in ARR.

You do have to keep in mind that the double Byregot's method is what I would call a safe method. It allows me to lock in 40-60% of the required quality first and then plan for the 2nd round. With high control though, there are a lot of ways of cheesing these. You will see synths where you only need to use Byregot's once or none at all. If I meet the requirements to do those RNG free, I don't aim for two Byregot's.

[testname]

I try to minimize my use of cp in the beginning in order to prepare to pay the full cost of the durability restore if necessary. A good percentage of my crafts involves restoring durability at full cost at least once in the craft. Hopefully, by that point, I've also made some significant gains toward building IQ stacks and/or progress through conditions.

It's always a juggle between using observe and HT to keep both CP and durability as high as possible to delay reaching the point where I would be forced into paying the full cost of a durability restore. However, paying the full cost isn't always terrible as I at least know what the cost is and can plan based on that. There are also other ways of managing cp and durability loss. I'm a fan of discounted prudent touches as they're both cp and durability friendly.

What I'm doing is basically RNG management. By alternating between observe and HT, I bait for a ton of conditions while trying to slow down durability and cp loss. I also selective pick places where the HTs will either hurt the least or have a higher chance of success. Unless you are close to finishing your craft, HTs hurt regardless of whether they land or miss.

Since the number of HTs that I use numbers in the dozens per synth, it smooths out HT RNG as well (increases sample size; I largely don't bat an eye when HTs miss under a normal or sturdy condition as I expect a huge % of them to miss) allowing me to handle the full spectrum of below average, average, and above average luck. You have to be able to handle all types and not just average or above average. Crafting has always been balanced for you to be able to handle all except for the absolute 1-5% worst outcomes.

Yes, even in ARR.

You do have to keep in mind that the double Byregot's method is what I would call a safe method. It allows me to lock in 40-60% of the required quality first and then plan for the 2nd round. With high control though, there are a lot of ways of cheesing these. You will see synths where you only need to use Byregot's once or none at all. If I meet the requirements to do those RNG free, I don't aim for two Byregot's.

I am doing exactly the same

I changed my buffed stats a little to 2680 control - I am getting more proc ( might be placebo effect ) but in 19 crafts I got worst of 60k HQ , every other went 100%

It takes me 5 min per craft, so 3 craft per syrup

[Caimie_Tsukino]

I try to minimize my use of cp in the beginning in order to prepare to pay the full cost of the durability restore if necessary. A good percentage of my crafts involves restoring durability at full cost at least once in the craft. Hopefully, by that point, I've also made some significant gains toward building IQ stacks and/or progress through conditions.

It's always a juggle between using observe and HT to keep both CP and durability as high as possible to delay reaching the point where I would be forced into paying the full cost of a durability restore. However, paying the full cost isn't always terrible as I at least know what the cost is and can plan based on that. There are also other ways of managing cp and durability loss. I'm a fan of discounted prudent touches as they're both cp and durability friendly.

What I'm doing is basically RNG management. By alternating between observe and HT, I bait for a ton of conditions while trying to slow down durability and cp loss. I also selective pick places where the HTs will either hurt the least or have a higher chance of success. Unless you are close to finishing your craft, HTs hurt regardless of whether they land or miss.

Since the number of HTs that I use numbers in the dozens per synth, it smooths out HT RNG as well (increases sample size; I largely don't bat an eye when HTs miss under a normal or sturdy condition as I expect a huge % of them to miss) allowing me to handle the full spectrum of below average, average, and above average luck. You have to be able to handle all types and not just average or above average. Crafting has always been balanced for you to be able to handle all except for the absolute 1-5% worst outcomes.

Yes, even in ARR.

You do have to keep in mind that the double Byregot's method is what I would call a safe method. It allows me to lock in 40-60% of the required quality first and then plan for the 2nd round. With high control though, there are a lot of ways of cheesing these. You will see synths where you only need to use Byregot's once or none at all. If I meet the requirements to do those RNG free, I don't aim for two Byregot's.

I guess what you're essentially saying is to avoid plain HT on normal condition. But there's not much one can do except using Observe, Careful Observation or hit a CP-consuming button. My original approach was to actually pop a WN to delay the durab from falling too fast, and continue the baiting... hoping that a Pliant would pop for my Manip. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I have a feeling it's not a very good strategy, as that costs 56 CP, while one could have used a good number of Observe to bait for conditions with the same amount of CP. So later, I'll just pop Manip, and continue the baiting... If the 2nd Pliant never arrives, I'll pop WN when durab is low, and that completely stops durab from falling while I hasty spam. Maybe instead of that popping WN, I should try using Observe instead.



I tried double-byregot, but I need to rely on some successful Patient Touches on Centered to get the IQ up twice like that, and that seems to fail sometimes for me. Lately, I seem to have some good successes with Innov, GS, Prep Touch instead. This way, I don't need to rebuild that IQ stack.

I am doing exactly the same

I changed my buffed stats a little to 2680 control - I am getting more proc ( might be placebo effect ) but in 19 crafts I got worst of 60k HQ , every other went 100%

It takes me 5 min per craft, so 3 craft per syrup

2680? That control is.... out of control! LOL! I have only about 2400-ish. But my record so far isn't too bad:


I think I'm doing better lately. My max quality has hit approx 50% lately, and it pulled my total average to about 40% when I included the previous data.

I just use Matcha HQ and Craftsman's Cunning Tea HQ. They offer less control and less CP, but they're level 70 items, so making them is easy with just Training Eye. Matcha HQ also uses much fewer mats than Blood Bouillabaisse, making the process much less costly and much faster.

I think I should remeld my chest though. Currently, I have ZERO control melds on the chest. I should change all that craftsmanship into control to help this.

[MN_14]

I guess what you're essentially saying is to avoid plain HT on normal condition. But there's not much one can do except using Observe, Careful Observation or hit a CP-consuming button. My original approach was to actually pop a WN to delay the durab from falling too fast, and continue the baiting... hoping that a Pliant would pop for my Manip. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I have a feeling it's not a very good strategy, as that costs 56 CP, while one could have used a good number of Observe to bait for conditions with the same amount of CP. So later, I'll just pop Manip, and continue the baiting... If the 2nd Pliant never arrives, I'll pop WN when durab is low, and that completely stops durab from falling while I hasty spam. Maybe instead of that popping WN, I should try using Observe instead.



I tried double-byregot, but I need to rely on some successful Patient Touches on Centered to get the IQ up twice like that, and that seems to fail sometimes for me. Lately, I seem to have some good successes with Innov, GS, Prep Touch instead. This way, I don't need to rebuild that IQ stack.

I use a ton of HTs under normal condition but usually only when durability is 55 or 60 (unless my cp is running really low) and when I have manipulation stacks remaining. That's the best time to use it without either a sturdy or centered condition.

Yes, I would observe instead of committing 56 cp to WN and make use of whatever condition comes next. Could be centered, sturdy, plaint, good. Doesn't matter most of the time. The craft seems to be balanced for you to be able to handle these with ease as long as you're utilizing conditions and gaining advantages.

For the double byregot's, you won't need to use a single patient touch although patient touch is great as an early head start on IQ most of the time if a centered proc is available near the beginning when your IQ is 3 after using reflect. Even if it misses, I don't try using it again.