Feedback on Expert Recipes:

[Ryaz]

That's right. People doing savages, have unique mounts, and glamours. I would like the same for Ex Crafters.

They also don't have to compete with others to get those glamours or mounts. They just need to get good enough to complete the content.

Right now, Ishgard has something like that in its 50,000/500,000 achievements. You will NEED to master expert crafts if you're ever going to get the crafting mount because it would take far too long otherwise. The ladder based stuff may only give a title, but actual dedication to crafting will earn you mounts and eventually relic tools.

[testname]

The rewards have to be crap, or you'll see countless people whining about it.

All in all, I think this is what "hardcore crafters" were asking for when they said they wanted a challenge and for the crafting process itself to be interesting.

I don't agree with You, its very easy to get 4500 points

People need to learn, but learning is hard, easier to go forum and whine


My stats 2512 Craft/2424 control / 552 cp ( my gear has melded V and IV materia for pentamelding - and those are easier to get than VII )
In 21 try, I got 15 items 100/100% on Expert _ and worst I had was 5443


- The worst thing about all of this, it's Time Consuming, The people with most time will be on Board(1)
- Good thing is that, the Mount needs 500k for every job in total, so I don't have to stress out to be on board at all

Edit:
and its not like, I use same routine every time on making Ex

I adapt to proc, dura, cp, sometimes I use PrepararatoryT, or DelicateS, or Prudent, Most of the time its HastyT for yellow, but when I am 11stack on innovation, I refuse to use HastyT

Only one skill I will never use, coz its totally waste, no mater how many times I did try = NameofElements

[Liam_Harper]

The rewards have to be crap, or you'll see countless people whining about it.

I disagree.

The mentality that any non-combat content that has any sort of difficulty, grind, complexity or time investment must have less rewards just kills off content. Everyone does not need to have every reward in the game.

Regular crafting is in a ridiculous spot now due to accessibility anyway. I get tired of seeing people complain about overmelds, then I spell out the exact method to be max pentamelded in less than a week for free plus how to stockpile for the future, they ignore it and continue complaining. It's never been easier. There are people complaining Ishgard leveling is hard and they're lv60 with lv20 mainhands because they had so much free exp hurled at them. 480 sets are everywhere too and worthless on the mb, normal raids and dungeons are pretty much irrelevant.

The more you hand people things on a plate, the lazier they get. They become used to not needing effort.

[Liam_Harper]

Any preferences on openers? I've seen Muscle Memory or Reflect + Ven and dig for Rapids, or Reflect and a slower Observe + Focus while utilizing procs on quality and Centred on Rapid. All have both worked for max and failed max. Muscle Memory feels very tied to Rapid success, since miss-miss-miss-Groundwork, no Pliant and having to start from IQ 1 is a fairly rough start. I'd imagine for consistent results you'd want to max progress with as little rng as possible.

[Rath]

Any preferences on openers? I've seen Muscle Memory or Reflect + Ven and dig for Rapids, or Reflect and a slower Observe + Focus while utilizing procs on quality and Centred on Rapid. All have both worked for max and failed max. Muscle Memory feels very tied to Rapid success, since miss-miss-miss-Groundwork, no Pliant and having to start from IQ 1 is a fairly rough start. I'd imagine for consistent results you'd want to max progress with as little rng as possible.

I personally prefer MuMe+Ven+RS. Remember the MuMe buff doesn't go away if you fail, so it's usually an easy way to get to 6600 progress. It then takes no effort to finish.

[MN_14]

Any preferences on openers? I've seen Muscle Memory or Reflect + Ven and dig for Rapids, or Reflect and a slower Observe + Focus while utilizing procs on quality and Centred on Rapid. All have both worked for max and failed max. Muscle Memory feels very tied to Rapid success, since miss-miss-miss-Groundwork, no Pliant and having to start from IQ 1 is a fairly rough start. I'd imagine for consistent results you'd want to max progress with as little rng as possible.

There are no openers. Progress is taken care of based on your situation and it occurs throughout the craft.

Personally, I rarely use veneration unless I'm behind in progress and have excess CP. Even when it is up, I might not end up taking advantage of it.

[Caimie_Tsukino]

Reflect makes the most sense if using Patient Touch to win. I tried Muscle Memory, but it felt unnecessary to need to also IQ.

Yes, that is my approach as well.

I tried using MusMem opener, but it doesn't work as nice as Reflect opener for me.

Any preferences on openers? I've seen Muscle Memory or Reflect + Ven and dig for Rapids, or Reflect and a slower Observe + Focus while utilizing procs on quality and Centred on Rapid. All have both worked for max and failed max. Muscle Memory feels very tied to Rapid success, since miss-miss-miss-Groundwork, no Pliant and having to start from IQ 1 is a fairly rough start. I'd imagine for consistent results you'd want to max progress with as little rng as possible.

I usually use Veneration+RapidSynx2, +RapidSyn to get progress done at the beginning while durab is still high. It seems to work fine. Of course, I also adjust it according to conditions too. Sometimes going the naked Rapid Syn first.

There are no openers. Progress is taken care of based on your situation and it occurs throughout the craft.

Personally, I rarely use veneration unless I'm behind in progress and have excess CP. Even when it is up, I might not end up taking advantage of it.

I don't know... I tried a little bit. But conditions don't seem to pop so easily when I need them, so a lot of times, I tried to bait conditions.... First, I'll just keep hasty spamming until durab is relatively low... around 35 or 30. Then I'll pop WN just to delay it a bit further until the first Pliant procs for Manip. But sometimes, it just doesn't happen, and I have to just hard-boot Manip at 96 CP. Then if Pliant appears, I can WN2. If Pliant comes when WN and Manip are all up, then I'll either MM if the durab is really low, or I'll go Prep Touch, which I found to be very effective under Pliant and WN/WN2. In fact, lately, I prefer Prep Touch over MM -- It's better to secure that large chunk of quality instead of boosting 30 durab which you easily lose from hasty anyway.

[MN_14]

I don't know... I tried a little bit. But conditions don't seem to pop so easily when I need them, so a lot of times, I tried to bait conditions.... First, I'll just keep hasty spamming until durab is relatively low... around 35 or 30. Then I'll pop WN just to delay it a bit further until the first Pliant procs for Manip. But sometimes, it just doesn't happen, and I have to just hard-boot Manip at 96 CP. Then if Pliant appears, I can WN2. If Pliant comes when WN and Manip are all up, then I'll either MM if the durab is really low, or I'll go Prep Touch, which I found to be very effective under Pliant and WN/WN2. In fact, lately, I prefer Prep Touch over MM -- It's better to secure that large chunk of quality instead of boosting 30 durab which you easily lose from hasty anyway.

You really don't want to HT spam because you'll be hemorrhaging durability far too quickly between conditions. I only straight out HT spam as a desperate final stand when I"m down to my last 74 cp. Unsurprisingly, it almost never works.

There are probably many different effective methods to do these crafts, but for me it's a highly methodical process where there's a reason for each and every skill that I use at any given step. I'm basically baiting conditions but it's almost never a specific one.

I think of the crafting flow as condition utilization where skills used in between a condition is a filler. Because conditions are so powerful, if possible, I try to take advantage of each and every one in some way.

In terms of fillers, there are two primary ones:

Observe - Harmless to durability but costs 7 cp, which adds up big over time.

HT - Costs 0 cp and builds up IQ stacks over a long period of time. Also costs 10 durability which adds up big over a very short period of time.

So I try to place HTs in places where it will do the least damage to my synth. It could be under a specific condition or it might not be. You'll need to use a whole ton of them though to build those IQ stacks slowly while using other skills along the way to help speed things along if cp permits.

Since the strategy is to bait conditions, burning either cp or durability = very bad (unless you can guarantee a success).

In low CP situations, I have to be very careful with my fillers because I can't afford for either durability or cp to drain too quickly before a possible bailout from a condition.

As a side note, I can tell that I'm absolutely horribly over-geared at almost 2600 control with food. That helps too.

[Caimie_Tsukino]

You really don't want to HT spam because you'll be hemorrhaging durability far too quickly between conditions. I only straight out HT spam as a desperate final stand when I"m down to my last 74 cp. Unsurprisingly, it almost never works.

There are probably many different effective methods to do these crafts, but for me it's a highly methodical process where there's a reason for each and every skill that I use at any given step. I'm basically baiting conditions but it's almost never a specific one.

I think of the crafting flow as condition utilization where skills used in between a condition is a filler. Because conditions are so powerful, if possible, I try to take advantage of each and every one in some way.

In terms of fillers, there are two primary ones:

Observe - Harmless to durability but costs 7 cp, which adds up big over time.

HT - Costs 0 cp and builds up IQ stacks over a long period of time. Also costs 10 durability which adds up big over a very short period of time.

So I try to place HTs in places where it will do the least damage to my synth. It could be under a specific condition or it might not be. You'll need to use a whole ton of them though to build those IQ stacks slowly while using other skills along the way to help speed things along if cp permits.

Since the strategy is to bait conditions, burning either cp or durability = very bad (unless you can guarantee a success).

In low CP situations, I have to be very careful with my fillers because I can't afford for either durability or cp to drain too quickly before a possible bailout from a condition.

As a side note, I can tell that I'm absolutely horribly over-geared at almost 2600 control with food. That helps too.

What's your general approach before your first pliant pops? It's very easy to start working on progress or building IQ stacks, but very soon durab will reach 25 or lower. What's your way to delay it until the pliant? And what do you do if the pliant eventually don't come? I have tried numerous things. Everything works since there's plenty of CP there, but none works great, as all depletes CP fast!

[MN_14]

What's your general approach before your first pliant pops? It's very easy to start working on progress or building IQ stacks, but very soon durab will reach 25 or lower. What's your way to delay it until the pliant? And what do you do if the pliant eventually don't come? I have tried numerous things. Everything works since there's plenty of CP there, but none works great, as all depletes CP fast!

I try to minimize my use of cp in the beginning in order to prepare to pay the full cost of the durability restore if necessary. A good percentage of my crafts involves restoring durability at full cost at least once in the craft. Hopefully, by that point, I've also made some significant gains toward building IQ stacks and/or progress through conditions.

It's always a juggle between using observe and HT to keep both CP and durability as high as possible to delay reaching the point where I would be forced into paying the full cost of a durability restore. However, paying the full cost isn't always terrible as I at least know what the cost is and can plan based on that. There are also other ways of managing cp and durability loss. I'm a fan of discounted prudent touches as they're both cp and durability friendly.

What I'm doing is basically RNG management. By alternating between observe and HT, I bait for a ton of conditions while trying to slow down durability and cp loss. I also selective pick places where the HTs will either hurt the least or have a higher chance of success. Unless you are close to finishing your craft, HTs hurt regardless of whether they land or miss.

Since the number of HTs that I use numbers in the dozens per synth, it smooths out HT RNG as well (increases sample size; I largely don't bat an eye when HTs miss under a normal or sturdy condition as I expect a huge % of them to miss) allowing me to handle the full spectrum of below average, average, and above average luck. You have to be able to handle all types and not just average or above average. Crafting has always been balanced for you to be able to handle all except for the absolute 1-5% worst outcomes.

Yes, even in ARR.

You do have to keep in mind that the double Byregot's method is what I would call a safe method. It allows me to lock in 40-60% of the required quality first and then plan for the 2nd round. With high control though, there are a lot of ways of cheesing these. You will see synths where you only need to use Byregot's once or none at all. If I meet the requirements to do those RNG free, I don't aim for two Byregot's.