Feedback on Expert Recipes:

[Kabooa]

So, let me begin by saying I am one of the "RNG is not difficulty" folks. I am pretty opposed to a craft being determined by 'RNG'.

However, recall that outside collectibles, every single craft is a binary pass/fail. Collectibles themselves fall on a gradual scale and are not binary pass/fails, even if the current state of collectibles makes pre-100% the same as a fail.

The Expert Craft is not a binary pass/fail, and the nature of how it changes its "Condition" state has created several methods to approach it. The priority system I listed in the other thread is pretty time inefficient and I imagine others are finding ways to keep step counts in a 40-60 range.

I need to re-emphasize this part

Expert Recipes are collectibles and are not a binary pass/fail. You get what you get, unlike standard crafting where it's either HQ or worthless.

The removal of "Excellent" also removes a 'bad' scenario from the pool. In other words - Every RNG state in the Expert Process is a positive one, with the exception of centered which can be neutral.

The current system is ultimately about CP management, and I imagine as more people work with it, we'll find more efficient priority systems. If the procs were meaningless and you didn't need them, then you're just back to macro crafting.

Resource management is a skill.

Recognizing your quality slam windows is a skill.

Risk evaluation is a skill.

If anything has been made apparent by Expert recipes, it's that we've been stat-crashing our way to victory since basically Heavensward. The "fail 3 times and reclaim" RNG of ARR doesn't apply here. The ability to extend and retain CP and the encouragement to abuse the common Condition states allows for stupid rebounding potential. Blind slamming progress/quality windows is what screws up the process, AKA what we've been doing this whole time.

The only pre-requisite I see for moving this to the main crafting recipes is that the binary pass/fail of HQ/NQ needs to go in favor of the gradual scaling reward. There'd be less to worry about if the "HQ mark" was at 30% quality, and then every break point past that just improves it further in a non-escalating fashion.

[Caimie_Tsukino]

So, let me begin by saying I am one of the "RNG is not difficulty" folks. I am pretty opposed to a craft being determined by 'RNG'.

However, recall that outside collectibles, every single craft is a binary pass/fail. Collectibles themselves fall on a gradual scale and are not binary pass/fails, even if the current state of collectibles makes pre-100% the same as a fail.

The Expert Craft is not a binary pass/fail, and the nature of how it changes its "Condition" state has created several methods to approach it. The priority system I listed in the other thread is pretty time inefficient and I imagine others are finding ways to keep step counts in a 40-60 range.

I need to re-emphasize this part

Expert Recipes are collectibles and are not a binary pass/fail. You get what you get, unlike standard crafting where it's either HQ or worthless.

The removal of "Excellent" also removes a 'bad' scenario from the pool. In other words - Every RNG state in the Expert Process is a positive one, with the exception of centered which can be neutral.

The current system is ultimately about CP management, and I imagine as more people work with it, we'll find more efficient priority systems. If the procs were meaningless and you didn't need them, then you're just back to macro crafting.

Resource management is a skill.

Recognizing your quality slam windows is a skill.

Risk evaluation is a skill.

If anything has been made apparent by Expert recipes, it's that we've been stat-crashing our way to victory since basically Heavensward. The "fail 3 times and reclaim" RNG of ARR doesn't apply here. The ability to extend and retain CP and the encouragement to abuse the common Condition states allows for stupid rebounding potential. Blind slamming progress/quality windows is what screws up the process, AKA what we've been doing this whole time.

The only pre-requisite I see for moving this to the main crafting recipes is that the binary pass/fail of HQ/NQ needs to go in favor of the gradual scaling reward. There'd be less to worry about if the "HQ mark" was at 30% quality, and then every break point past that just improves it further in a non-escalating fashion.

Well said! These Expert Recipes are vastly different from the ARR's "3 Hasty fails and you're gone" scenario. Due to the rather lengthy crafting process, you can actually afford some good amounts of Hasty/Rapid fails, and also chances of NOT getting a particular essential condition is low. Of course, the downside is that it takes quite long to finish 1 craft. But I think it's alright.

I also like the 4500 /5K /6K margins. I think they are quite well-set, so as to better translate the value of a finished product into appropriate amounts of scrips.