Feedback on Expert Recipes:

[Caimie_Tsukino]

There's room for tweaks and improvement though. I think two culprits are the Centered Proc (still hefty rng) and how reliant you end up on the Pliant buff. Saving nearly 50 CP is massive. Centered could almost be buffed to 100%, though that's certainly up for discussion.
I also feel our toolkit is a little too small now, which lowers the potential for niche intelligent choices and pushes us towards a priority system, where certain abilities are just miles better.

It's a good system and a step in the right direction. The rewards are indeed awful though.

This is exactly how I feel too. Currently, it's way too Pliant-centric. As long as you spam all your durab-recovery/saving skills whenever it pops, it pretty much allows you to spam naked Hasties and Rapids without much thoughts. So it kind of defeated the point of having Groundwork, Prep Touch, Prudent, Basic or even Precise (since Trick trumps Precise to have better chance for more durab recovery).

I have tried a few times using Patient as well, as it's ridiculously good when it doubles you from 5 to 10 IQ on a Centered Proc. Even if you lose the whole stack, as long as it's still early, you can still gamble your way back by spamming even more Patient.

So my thoughts are...
(1) For Pliant, perhaps instead of reducing CP by half, Pliant should just reduce CP by a fix value? And if the action uses fewer CP than the CP discount, then the action's CP is halved (this prevents too many free skills).
(2) For Centered, perhaps instead of buffing any skill by 25%, it should just buff Hasty and Rapid to 100%, but does not buff Patient (else it's overpowered)?

As for Sturdy, I like how it is at the moment. It's less impactful comparing to Pliant and Centered, but it's still pretty cool, especially when you get increase or decrease of tad bits of durab, making the whole thing more complex.

For those who are still unfamiliar with Sturdy, here are the funky new rules with the condition:
Under Sturdy, Hasty Touch will decrease durab by 5.
Under Sturdy, if WN (or WN2) is active, Hasty Touch will decrease durab by 3.
Under Sturdy, if Manip is active, Hasty Touch will NOT decrease any durab.
Under Sturdy, if WN (or WN2) and Manip are both active, Hasty Touch will actually increase durab by 2.

Originally, I tried to look into how it affects Groundwork/Prep Touch too, but now it seems pointless as we don't use those skills for this recipe anymore.

[Kabooa]

Originally, I tried to look into how it affects Groundwork/Prep Touch too, but now it seems pointless as we don't use those skills for this recipe anymore.

Sturdy is a multiplicative 50%, so with Waste Not it's 25% Durability cost, rounded up. Sturdy is an effective 5-24 CP cost reduction (2-10 durability)

[Plastics]

You can just make expert combat/crafting gear, you craft a collectable, there's 3 milestones, the first 2 just give you a bunch of gil and scrips to pay for the cost, the third gives you a token that can be traded to an NPC for an item with equivalent stats to HQ but with 2 extra extra materia slots. That means there's a benefit to doing expert level recipes, but it's not game breaking or anything. If you want to go crazy and get uber stats as a DoH/DoL you can craft those, there'll be items worth serious gil early in patches for people who want to meld 5 VIIIs to a piece, but they still leave a reason for Ornate gear to exist: 5 guaranteed VIII slots, even on pieces that have 1 base (3 expert).

I think that fits the niche quite nicely and should be easy for them to implement.

For people not happy about rng involvement:

There is really no other way they can make this crafting system seem “difficult” without the use of randomness. It’s just impossible. Plus, as much as they annoy us with casual things and over accessibility, I have to give them credit. They listened to hardcore players and (attempted) to make recipes hard.

Next step would be expert recipes rewards, and improving them to encourage more people to do it. As well as seeing if there is a way to make even more of these hardcore players happy. Because we have to remember, expert recipes weren’t really designed for the average crafter.

You can definitely remove the RNG element by making the statuses static per some time period and limiting steps. That way it's a lot more about strategy and using knowledge of crafting (as an expert should) and less getting lucky enough. You'd still be able to macro, but you'd have to build a new macro constantly, and there would be no sharing of macros if you make it so everyone has their own set of statuses.

[Dan4077]

The idea of turning crafting into gambling is ridiculous, the entire point of crafting is making gil for the majority. Why in the world would I want to gamble it for chance. Procs are chance period, this is undeniable fact. You cannot "predict it" and even if you do guess what proc did you even get!? Now there is more then just 2 that makes it even more RNG. The only reason the items are worth NOTHING is because there is no reward and thank GOD for that. Cause if there was say an outfit or a mount locked behind it the prices would NOT be cheap. The rich would be buying them up and anyone with even a decent amount of gil would have to farm away to get a very small chance the they procs blessed them. I gone threw a decent amount of trial and error mainly works with skills we dont even use anymore. But even then you still need the right proc to pop up at the right time to really take advantage. Not to mention excellent condition seems prudent if not a complete necessity. That is tedious not fun.

[smoodie]

The idea of turning crafting into gambling is ridiculous, the entire point of crafting is making gil for the majority. Why in the world would I want to gamble it for chance. Procs are chance period, this is undeniable fact. You cannot "predict it" and even if you do guess what proc did you even get!? Now there is more then just 2 that makes it even more RNG. The only reason the items are worth NOTHING is because there is no reward and thank GOD for that. Cause if there was say an outfit or a mount locked behind it the prices would NOT be cheap. The rich would be buying them up and anyone with even a decent amount of gil would have to farm away to get a very small chance the they procs blessed them. I gone threw a decent amount of trial and error mainly works with skills we dont even use anymore. But even then you still need the right proc to pop up at the right time to really take advantage. Not to mention excellent condition seems prudent if not a complete necessity. That is tedious not fun.

I’m generally a forum lurker, but yikes, your comment...

Comments like this are exactly why they keep changing the crafting system every expansion and never stick to one plan. Guess what, buddy? That’s how crafting used to always work. It was all totally rng up until 4.0. I didn’t mind 4.0 crafting but I know a lot of my hard core MLG crafter friends didn’t because of Prudent Touch action Lol. Anyways. You spent your gil, you started a craft, and just did your best to utilize your toolkit and hope rng didn’t scree you over. That’s how it always was. I admit it made me annoyed but it was an intriguing system nonetheless. The expert recipes are fine the way they are, and don’t need to be changed, it’s definitely better than master recipe’s poor difficulty spike.

If RNG is so “tedious” for you, then don’t craft it. Nobody is forcing you to do expert recipes, and if square chooses to listen to poor sport players like yourself, we will be repeating history all over again. People whining about players with a lot of Gil. People whining about rng because it inconveniences them. People whining about something that they don’t even need to do. I don’t mean to be rude. But I have to call this type of behavior out. This is exactly what led crafting to its demise in 5.0. Because of whiners. Just adapt to what’s given to you, and don’t whine. And for the record, who cares if a reward isn’t cheap. It’s not supposed to be if it’s a special reward. And by the way, “tedious” seems to be code around here for “it pisses me off and I don’t like it.”

Wow, and people say hardcore players are entitled. Ridiculous!

[Dan4077]

I’m generally a forum lurker, but yikes, your comment...

Comments like this are exactly why they keep changing the crafting system every expansion and never stick to one plan. Guess what, buddy? That’s how crafting used to always work. It was all totally rng up until 4.0. I didn’t mind 4.0 crafting but I know a lot of my hard core MLG crafter friends didn’t because of Prudent Touch action Lol. Anyways. You spent your gil, you started a craft, and just did your best to utilize your toolkit and hope rng didn’t scree you over.

If RNG is so “tedious” for you, then don’t craft it. Nobody is forcing you to do expert recipes, and if square chooses to listen to poor sport players like yourself, we will be repeating history all over again. People whining about players with a lot of Gil. People whining about rng because it inconveniences them. People whining about something that they don’t even need to do. I don’t mean to be rude. But I have to call this type of behavior out. This is exactly what led crafting to its demise in 5.0. Because of whiners. Just adapt to what’s given to you, and don’t whine. And for the record, who cares if a reward isn’t cheap. It’s not supposed to be if it’s a special reward. And by the way, “tedious” seems to be code around here for “it pisses me off and I don’t like it.”

Wow, and people say hardcore players are entitled. Ridiculous!

Entitled? First off I am talking about the new ishgard 2 star item not normal master recipes. So if criticize content I do not like, I am entitled. A game I pay for I think gets me some right to criticize the direction it is heading. That is a incompetent thing to say. In the 2nd post you decided to make you come out with the words entitled/whiner. You are making yourself look incompetent. I suggest you stay in lurker mode if this is the type of comments you make. I gave a reason MY reason why I believe it to be bad. I did not just type ITS BAD,REMOVE IT! I said my reasons why I believe it's bad. I have screwed around with this new craft about 30ish times trying many variations with only slight success so my OPINION which may blow your mind is that it is too hard at its current state. The only people that make comments like you are final fantasy fan boys. God forbid we criticize an aspect of the game we don't like you then become triggered and finally make that 2nd comment. I suggest in the future try to be a bit more intelligent and not try to shut peoples opinions down with words like ENTITLED/WHINER. lol cmon are we in middle school here?
Oh and question did you really just call your friends MLG Crafters LMFAO~!? Dude back in day crafting was mainly inner quiet while raising it with hasty touch there is nothing MLG about crafting dude ahahaha lets not act like your "friends" are rolling out in like CSGO tournys or something. Even back then there were rotation and all you had to do was follow and hope that the skills succeed and that you got procs.

[MilkAndChoco]

I’m generally a forum lurker, but yikes, your comment...

Comments like this are exactly why they keep changing the crafting system every expansion and never stick to one plan. Guess what, buddy? That’s how crafting used to always work. It was all totally rng up until 4.0. I didn’t mind 4.0 crafting but I know a lot of my hard core MLG crafter friends didn’t because of Prudent Touch action Lol. Anyways. You spent your gil, you started a craft, and just did your best to utilize your toolkit and hope rng didn’t scree you over. That’s how it always was. I admit it made me annoyed but it was an intriguing system nonetheless. The expert recipes are fine the way they are, and don’t need to be changed, it’s definitely better than master recipe’s poor difficulty spike.

If RNG is so “tedious” for you, then don’t craft it. Nobody is forcing you to do expert recipes, and if square chooses to listen to poor sport players like yourself, we will be repeating history all over again. People whining about players with a lot of Gil. People whining about rng because it inconveniences them. People whining about something that they don’t even need to do. I don’t mean to be rude. But I have to call this type of behavior out. This is exactly what led crafting to its demise in 5.0. Because of whiners. Just adapt to what’s given to you, and don’t whine. And for the record, who cares if a reward isn’t cheap. It’s not supposed to be if it’s a special reward. And by the way, “tedious” seems to be code around here for “it pisses me off and I don’t like it.”

Wow, and people say hardcore players are entitled. Ridiculous!

dont bother with salty lalafell lol some people are never happy and think everything in crafting is hard

[Dan4077]

dont bother with salty lalafell lol some people are never happy and think everything in crafting is hard

Generic fanboy comment, quote me where I said everything in crafting is hard? Oh wait I never said that. Won't bother "discussing" this with you cause you are 1 of two things, a troll or a fanboy. And neither have any interest in actually discussing anything.

[Jubeihero]

I’m generally a forum lurker, but yikes, your comment...

Comments like this are exactly why they keep changing the crafting system every expansion and never stick to one plan. Guess what, buddy? That’s how crafting used to always work. It was all totally rng up until 4.0. I didn’t mind 4.0 crafting but I know a lot of my hard core MLG crafter friends didn’t because of Prudent Touch action Lol. Anyways. You spent your gil, you started a craft, and just did your best to utilize your toolkit and hope rng didn’t scree you over. That’s how it always was. I admit it made me annoyed but it was an intriguing system nonetheless.

If RNG is so “tedious” for you, then don’t craft it. Nobody is forcing you to do expert recipes, and if square chooses to listen to poor sport players like yourself, we will be repeating history all over again. People whining about players with a lot of Gil. People whining about rng because it inconveniences them. People whining about something that they don’t even need to do. I don’t mean to be rude. But I have to call this type of behavior out. This is exactly what led crafting to its demise in 5.0. Because of whiners. Just adapt to what’s given to you, and don’t whine. And for the record, who cares if a reward isn’t cheap. It’s not supposed to be if it’s a special reward. And by the way, “tedious” seems to be code around here for “it pisses me off and I don’t like it.”

Wow, and people say hardcore players are entitled. Ridiculous!

I'm generally not even into forums, but your comment legit made me register to reply to how unbelievable this post this is. I've never had to do that so congrats on actually getting me to do this.

i've never heard of anyone saying the words MLG And Final Fantasy in the same contexts. Much less then that MLG CRAFTERS. Much why is change bad? When Ingenuity was removed and we got two new skills. There wasn't as much backlash only cause there was a overall lower quality of a lot of item to compensate that change of losing 15% to a crafting rotation. so it was adaptable. This is far from that this is 3x what Neo-Ishgard Gear is 3 TIMES That is a outrageous.

Also can we drop the whole act of how you don't want to be rude? You are already being rude so don't try to safe face by saying that. We all pay the same avg amount for a sub to this game. it's okay to point out flaws in something. this is a huge flaw and oversight. Making it challenging is okay. Making it where you legit have to pray you get the right proc at the right time and waste time and effort for a bogus crafting rotation? Come on Fam, It isn't like you re-spec your current gear and suddenly you are a godlike craftier again.

Also before you say it. No i'm not gonna stop crafting or i'm not gonna stop playing the game. Cause just that's a stupid Rebuttal.

[testname]

If You think Expert is too hard, then it is not For You - Sorry

The game has already 99% of items that You can craft with closed eyes, You can craft those instead