Prepulling mobs as healer

[SamRF]

Didn't know you were the only person in a group. because AFAIK, a group is of 4 people, or 8, or 24. And those people work together. having one person go against what others are doing causes more problems than anything.

Preposterous, I know, but some of us are here to have fun, not grind every dungeon down to the last millisecond of effeciency.

Yes we are in a group. Now tell me, what is the purpose for being in a group? And how does prepulling in given situation I described endanger that purpose in any way?

[tdb]

Yes we are in a group. Now tell me, what is the purpose for being in a group? And how does prepulling in given situation I described endanger that purpose in any way?

The purpose of a group is to have fun. Together. If you pull as a healer without asking the tank, there's a good chance they'll feel like you're walking all over them. Is your fun more valuable than theirs?

[SamRF]

The purpose of a group is to have fun. Together. If you pull as a healer without asking the tank, there's a good chance they'll feel like you're walking all over them. Is your fun more valuable than theirs?

The whole point of my argument would then be that tanks shouldn't feel that way in given situation. It's their (close minded) mentality that is causing them to have less fun, not what I'm doing. Using your reasoning: "how can they be having less fun than the healer who is spamming 1 dps button? They should adjust their gameplay so healer can also have some fun.". I don't agree with this, I don't mind if tanks want to pull small but they also shouldn't mind if I pull ahead and bring some mobs to them that they can choose to ignore if they wish.

Let me put it simpler (only applicable to specific situation I described in first post):

What are the consequences if a tank pulls small? No danger, no deaths, no wipe. Dungeon progresses slower. Everybody is comfortable in their engaging dps rotation while healer is bored out of their mind with their 1 dps ability.

What are the consequences if healer prepulls some mobs ahead and brings them to the tank? No danger, no deaths, no wipe. Dungeon progresses faster. Dps and tank keep doing their engaging dps rotation while healer can now be more engaged by popping some oGCD's between spamming their 1 dps ability.

[Vulcann]

you trying to force your playstyle on other is what's causing them to have less fun ... YOU doing whats outside the norm is the problem not the tank. you alone don't get to decide how the group is having fun

your two options are

play a tank and then decide how you want to pull

or play with a static group where you can force your playstyle upon them and only then.

this "rant" shouldn't be needed you're in the wrong no matter what you say. get over it.

heres a funny story for you healers out there ... running with a friend in a roulette, i pulled two packs at a time for the most part (yes omg I am a safe puller beware if you group with me your roulette might take 5 minutes longer). started tanking, the healer runs ahead and "rescues" me to him/her in order to pull another pack of mobs. we killed the mobs and then we booted the healer.

[Enla]

The whole point of my argument would then be that tanks shouldn't feel that way in given situation. It's their (close minded) mentality that is causing them to have less fun, not what I'm doing. Using your reasoning: "how can they be having less fun than the healer who is spamming 1 dps button? They should adjust their gameplay so healer can also have some fun.". I don't agree with this, I don't mind if tanks want to pull small but they also shouldn't mind if I pull ahead and bring some mobs to them that they can choose to ignore if they wish.

Let me put it simpler (only applicable to specific situation I described in first post):

What are the consequences if a tank pulls small? No danger, no deaths, no wipe. Dungeon progresses slower. Everybody is comfortable in their engaging dps rotation while healer is bored out of their mind with their 1 dps ability.

What are the consequences if healer prepulls some mobs ahead and brings them to the tank? No danger, no deaths, no wipe. Dungeon progresses faster. Dps and tank keep doing their engaging dps rotation while healer can now be more engaged by popping some oGCD's between spamming their 1 dps ability.

I do hope you realize how very 'me me me' this comes off right? Likewise I can guarantee someone with anxiety is DEFINITELY having less fun with you pulling for them and not because of their 'mentality' as you say it. Also as a healer main I don't really care either way, it's not the tank's fault that SE gimped us out of a proper rotation. If someone wants to pull more fine, if someone doesn't that's also fine. These sort of things should be /discussed/ within your party - not with you making snap judgments for them and then looking down on them for not fitting into your mind set.

[Schan]

What are the consequences if healer prepulls some mobs ahead and brings them to the tank? No danger, no deaths, no wipe. Dungeon progresses faster. Dps and tank keep doing their engaging dps rotation while healer can now be more engaged by popping some oGCD's between spamming their 1 dps ability.

Except when you make the wrong assessment and stuff goes to heck and you all die and then you're wasting eveyrone's time including yours. There is a fine balance between doing things fast and doing things safely.

I've had my share of smartass healers who decide to pull more and normally it ends with them either blaming me or them quietly not doing it again.
I normally pull wall to wall. If anyone voices they want to slow down I will. If there is a pull where I don't pull wall to wall it'll be cause something is wrong. I use the first pull to assess both the healers and the dps. I have a general idea of how fast things should be dying. I have a general idea of how hard the mobs hit and I have a general idea of your cooldowns as well (because I also play healer) - Not everyone will have this knowledge. I have played the game too much at times.

If things die too slowly (which is pretty common in DF) I will be using more cooldowns. If I run out of cooldowns I will pull a smaller pack. If you pull for me that means I will be tanking a bigger pack with 0 cooldowns and more often than not the smartass healer can't keep up with the healing required when that happens. For some reason such smartass healers also decide to do it on the packs that hit particularly hard in the dungeon. We wipe more often than not when people don't respect the pace I set as a tank. Heck sometimes we even wipe with I could consider my normal pace so I slow down because otherwise it would just be a waste of time for the people involved myself included.

Also why am I not surprised a Zodiark person has created this thread... I guess Server checks out.

[AngelCheese77]

Yes we are in a group. Now tell me, what is the purpose for being in a group? And how does prepulling in given situation I described endanger that purpose in any way?

Being in a group is to do content of the dungeon, not have one person who is bored or wants a fast paced dungeon do what they want.

Hence, my point still stands. If you want to pull, be a tank, or find others who like to do wall to wall pulls and fast pacing.

[Centershock]

Yes we are in a group. Now tell me, what is the purpose for being in a group? And how does prepulling in given situation I described endanger that purpose in any way?

You are not the only person in your group and we all work differently. You are pushing your pace onto the tanks and if you are trying to give them more than they can handle, then the death you experience in a dungeon is well-deserved and invites toxic behaviour.

The consequences of a healer pulling pre-emptively to bring them to a tank can be a variety of outcomes. If I were the tank, I would let you eat what you aggro'd unto your inevitable death, causing you to either 1) leave the dungeon yourself so you didn't have to put up with me and eat a 30-minute timer, 2) respawn all the way to the beginning and wasting time for everyone in the party, 3) continue on until you do it again until which I will stop what I'm doing and communicate to the party that I want to remove you.

You continue to fail to understand that you are not the only person in the party and you can't push everyone else to your own "efficiency level" just because you're bored.

[3c-33]

The consequences of a healer pulling pre-emptively to bring them to a tank can be a variety of outcomes. If I were the tank, I would let you eat what you aggro'd unto your inevitable death, causing you to either 1) leave the dungeon yourself so you didn't have to put up with me and eat a 30-minute timer, 2) respawn all the way to the beginning and wasting time for everyone in the party

It's funny you talk about someone else wasting time when you're the only person in that scenario wasting time not only by pulling small but intentionally letting someone die so as to extend the run.

The monotony and hypocrisy of what's continuously being said here is so boring. What you say about "you're not the only person here" applies to everyone, the tank is not excluded from this. If three people want to go fast and the tank doesn't, it is the tank that is the problem. Just like pulling for the tank might be inconsiderate, the tank refusing to accommodate for the rest of the players is also inconsiderate. No one person gets to decide everything in a group and being the tank definitely does not give you that privilege.

In my case, we were in mociannes hard, and the tank was baby pulling. He was level 80 on the tank, had several other jobs at 80, not on his first time. Me as the healer and two dps all wanted to go fast, so I pulled for him and proceeded to never need a healing spell the entire dungeon, and he got mad in me in chat for pulling. At this point he started to dig in his heels and start trolling, by doing single target rotations, turning his stance off and refusing to pick up the mobs. At this point, we have one player throwing a hissy fit because three people didn't agree with him when we didn't even need him in the first place. A vote kick was called, and I voted no because I hate kicking, but the other two wanted it so he got kicked. Their reasoning was the tank was refusing to play his job when on all technicality that was exactly correct. Now you see in this scenario the only problem here was the tank. Doesn't feel so good to use this argument now right? Nothing entitled him to act that way.

Nothing about tanking matters. It's braindead easy. You press one button and now have aggro. Most dungeons do not require a tank, the tank simply makes it more convenient. To think that spamming two buttons over and over while pressing one mitigation spell occasionally is hard or entitles you to decide everything is absurd. I'm so glad I never developed brain rot from playing tanks so much. As the tank, I am a player that has just as much say in the matter that everyone else does. You owe everyone there just as much courtesy as everyone else does and all this anxiety stuff is an uncalled for non-issue. The enmity debate is dead and no longer matters. Games and people change and we're at the point people still feel entitled to force some ridiculous rules that no longer apply.

If you ask me, the difficulty of big pulls should be mandatory. No optional pulling two at a time, you're forced to take more damage from more mobs so you can actually be a TANK and not a useless princess standing there slowing everyone down for the sake of your own baseless discomfort. You don't need a tank for single pulls so where exactly does this level of feeling the need to be coddled come from? If you can't handle it, you don't deserve to be a tank. If you're the player who babypulls no matter what, I know you're not using cooldowns properly for busters either, so then why are you playing a tank. This is not animal crossing. There is supposed to be some form of challenge. If there was no challenge, this game would be dead. To imply otherwise basically means you think people would be okay standing around hitting a striking dummy for the rest of the game, which will never happen. And yet that is the level of difficulty you take on by insisting you need to be slow. If you feel that pressured, play animal crossing.

This is coming from a casual player who plays to relax and have fun. I play to feel engaged, not fall asleep. Again, if all of this sounds too scary, then you shouldn't be playing a tank, and probably not this game at all.

By the way, the healers who act like this are just as bad. People who say "I let people die for x reason" or talk about not resing people who have died for whatever reason. It's one thing to not res someone to save mp because they die every ten seconds and there's no point to, and another to "stand on someone's corpse and continue dpsing to shame them." What is WRONG with you? Healers arent special either, no one is. What is it about these roles that automatically turn people into feeling entitlement while being a complete asshole? You are there to heal people, not laugh and point at others' mistakes and decide whether or not they get to play just because you are a healer. This even includes people who may die a LOT in some places. It happens to everyone, it happens to me, you don't get to decide someone else doesn't get to play because they're having a bad day. If they're not trying and ignoring everything? Fine, let them sit there, it's their choice that they no longer get to play. Otherwise though? No, get off your high horse and realize that everyone else is a person just like you are.

Editing this to add on a bit: By continually insinuating that the tank decides what gets pulled and how much, you're also implying that it's okay for a tank to continually pull big after several wipes even though the healer can't handle it. But the tank controls the pace no matter what right??? Or if someone wants to like, full clear haukke manor, and the other people do too, you think the tank is justified in still wanting to rush ahead despite what the group wants? I thought we reached the conclusion it's not okay for the tank to decide everything like that in a different thread lmao

[Alleo]

Yes we are in a group. Now tell me, what is the purpose for being in a group? And how does prepulling in given situation I described endanger that purpose in any way?

Because if you are with randoms you have no idea how good they are, how they will react. You might think that you have everything under control but you cant be certain. There are dungeons were its not dangerous but there are also some that will kill you. Killing the healer is a wipe. Pulling without the rest wanting to do it just raises the risk of it going horrible wrong thus wasting more time.

I am just not sure why you dont just queue up with others you know or as a tank? Heck go with trusts or the squadron. There you can do whatever you want.