Prepulling mobs as healer

[3c-33]

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Well that's interesting to know, I still can't see myself getting personally offended over it even if those mechanics did apply, doesn't sound like a personal thing to me when I'm just some random, why would someone else try to make my life harder for no reason?

[Bright-Flower]

Why do I need consent from the group if I'm the healer and I don't risk a wipe at all and I'm keeping everyone alive? Tank also doesn't need to ask consent to pull more, sure it's their job, but there seems to be less hard feelings when tank overpulls and causes a wipe (not completely sure about that one actually). While I'm literally not risking anything and making the dungeon progress faster. Maybe you should change your mentality towards the game if you consider that rude?

You can also say I should change my mentality for not seeing it as rude, but then I'd say consider that what I'm doing is increasing efficiency, which is the whole point of the tank/healer/dps role conventions in the first place: to do do dungeons in most efficient manner. You could for example let dps take all enmity and let tank just dps, but that's not the convention because it wouldn't be efficient.

Thus I would say there's no point in abiding by the convention in a situation when it's obviously not the most efficient path forward. And for that reason it shouldn't be seen as rude imo.

Not everyone is going in with the mind set of 'MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY.' If you want to pull more, just ask. It's a party, communicate. If you want max efficiency regardless of what the rest of the party wants form a premade because you're not going to always get that with randoms.

[Ammokkx]

At this point, I think the reason why your and other's opinion on this issue sounds so absurd to me, is the fact that I'm used to community of (most?) other online games that are usually much less forgiving (and admittedly also more toxic).

I don't like the fact that those communities tend to be toxic and extremely harsh sometimes, but seeing this thread, you people seem extreme in the opposite way in my view. Being nice and careful about other player's feelings seems to be the standard, which is a good thing, until we get to the point where everybody gets too sensitive about negligible stuff and treats everybody like some kind of entitled snowflake. This also ends up being toxic imo and will be a turn off to some players. I don't mean this to be offensive, just my thought and concern (which can be flawed of course).

I shouldn't speak on this tbh cause I'm the one who created this thread in first place wondering why people get upset and find my situation rude, so in a way I'm the one that feels conflicted and entitled to less complaints. However I think it's just that the fact that I obviously have efficiency on my side in given situation that most other gaming communities would take my side in similar case, while you people prioritize players their feelings and comfort, which can be a good thing, but imo only to a certain extend.

See, here's where I'll nuance my opinions.

Right now, we've strictly been talking in terms of "roulette content", AKA low-tier stuff. Roulettes are put in place so veterans fill the lobbies of newer players, so they can experience the parts of the game that absolutely require multiple players without getting screwed. Now let's take this into account.

-In a 4-player roulette, you only have 1 tank. They should absolutely decide the pace of the dungeon, because they're the only one that can take the hits. If that tank does not wish to deal with massive mobs, the healer should respect that. The tank could be wanting to take it easy for any number of reasons. On the other way around, the tank should keep in mind when a healer is not comfortable with a mega-pull (in case the healer can't keep up). You wouldn't believe how many longstop runs I've seen get wiped on the first room because the tank took too many mobs at once without stopping to think that the healer might be new or not very good at it.
-In 8-player roulettes, you get 2 tanks and 2 healers. As far as I'm aware, very little to no dungeons use this system, only trials and raids. The former has no pulling issue, and the latter has people signing up for extreme content, so there's an expectancy to know what you're doing. If we're talking the MSQ dungeons, everyone rushes those, so this complaint most likely doesn't apply there. If it does, nobody complains, because at least 6 people know what they're doing regardless.
-In 24-player roulettes, AKA raids, this stops being an issue entirely because even if one alliance is complete trash, the other two can pick up the slack. Of course the tank should be expected to know what they're doing, but it's not an absolute disaster if they don't, because two other tanks can do their job just as well. If all three are shit, then you've just entered the 5th circle of hell.

And, of course, if you do savage or extreme content, you're expected to play your A-game. Those are very much things you opt into, and is only for those with a drive to play at their peak.

But that's the thing- the more players get involved, the more expectations get raised. Paradoxically, it also means you stop noticing if it's only a very select number fucking up, since there's so many other people to fill the void.

It is absolutely rude to pull ahead in 4-man dungeons, because the tank could have any number of reasons for playing, and most of all, it's easy content. People play this game to relax, and some would like to take it more easy than others. In these situations, you should respect if they don't want mass pulls, because it's not content where you can go into it expecting the best possible play at all time. Ironically I usually find it's the overeager tanks who pull the whole dungeon without a healer who can keep up to be the problem, but that's beside the point.

Expect people at their best in content where you're expected to play your best. Don't do it in lower levelled, or lower skilled ones, because not everyone is looking for that there.

I'm reminded of the "mediocrity should not be the standard" thread and how similar issues came up. Quite frankly, if it's not optional content, let people play at their pace. People need to get through it at one point or another, and someone taking it slow and steady shouldn't be a problem there.

[EpicOverlord85]

Originally posted this in dungeons subforum but realized it's pretty dead:

If you know the dungeon and have an idea of what's coming and how much damage there will be dealt, there's imo no point in not rushing ahead and pulling more mobs as healer when tank keeps pulls small, especially when tank is geared to the point you barely need to heal. Me and many other healers/players are constantly calculating which move will lead to most dps while keeping everybody alive, and rushing/pulling ahead is sometimes the best move in that regard

I usually don't prepull even when I know I can without problems, except for some cases, like in those lvl 50/60/70 dungeons. Sometimes I literally have to use maybe 5 healing abilities (oGCD/GCD) throughout whole dungeon even when tank pulls wall to wall. They are an absolute joke to heal through and thus they are very boring as healer cause you're stuck spamming 1 dps ability all the time.

Yet several times I've heard tank or dps get mad and tell me to stop prepulling, even when they had ignored my request to pull more. Meanwhile tank proceeds to not go beyond 80% health without any healing. Why is prepulling considered rude/bad in this case? Everyone is completely overgeared to the point they may solo the entire dungeon.

I don't mind at all if tank wants to keep pulls small, but they should also not mind if I go pull mobs and bring them to the tank. They literally don't have to do anything except their aoe rotation, which they are doing anyway.

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edit: replies that might be relevant to take into consideration

Do not pull as a healer or DPS. If you want to pull play as a Tank.

[Enla]

I wanted to give a reply to this but my post went over the character limit so here's a link to a G docs instead.

You can go back and edit your post to get past the character limit.

[AngelCheese77]

Why do I need consent from the group if I'm the healer and I don't risk a wipe at all and I'm keeping everyone alive?

Didn't know you were the only person in a group. because AFAIK, a group is of 4 people, or 8, or 24. And those people work together. having one person go against what others are doing causes more problems than anything.

Preposterous, I know, but some of us are here to have fun, not grind every dungeon down to the last millisecond of effeciency. If you want to do that, I suggest making a premade party.

If I was a tank, I would ask you once to not do that. If you continued, I would eat the penalty and go fishing.

And yes, there have been times where I have healed for a group who did what you explain (the DPS pulled more), and either it was too much for the tank who couldn't handle it, the tank D/C'ed, or lord knows what else.

[Nedkel]

Tanks SO SLOW to the point where healer starts doing their job should be ashamed of themselves and stop playing tank altogether.
If a healer starts to pull on his own it could only mean few things:
1. A tank should not play the tank class
2. A tank should go play hellokitty online.

After maining all tanks for almost 3 years i never had a situation where healer would pull for me, tanking is not rocket science, everyone could do it especially today with how brainded tanking and dungeons are. I could understand sprout tanks, but anything else is unacceptable.

[Ammokkx]

You can go back and edit your post to get past the character limit.

I'm 50% over it. Even if I cut out the quote (which, initially, wasn't even the whole thing), I still have around 600 characters to cut down on. Not quite in the revisionist mood to make it concise enough when I can just link to an external source to make my point as-was.

[Enla]

Tanks SO SLOW to the point where healer starts doing their job should be ashamed of themselves and stop playing tank altogether.
If a healer starts to pull on his own it could only mean few things:
1. A tank should not play the tank class
2. A tank should go play hellokitty online.

After maining all tanks for almost 3 years i never had a situation where healer would pull for me, tanking is not rocket science, everyone could do it. I could understand sprout tanks, but anything else is unacceptable.

Not everyone is you. Some people are coming back to the game after a long time away and need time to figure their class out again. Some people have anxiety. Some people are disabled and have trouble with their reactions. Repeat ad nauseum because there are a whole laundry list of reasons someone might not be large pulling in a dungeon that don't automatically equate to them being 'bad' and should 'not play the tank class'.

I'm 50% over it. Even if I cut out the quote (which, initially, wasn't even the whole thing), I still have around 600 characters to cut down on. Not quite in the revisionist mood to make it concise enough when I can just link to an external source to make my point as-was.

Just copy/cut the part that's over and paste it back in with an edit. It takes less time than making a google doc and you don't need to summarize either.

[Nedkel]

Not everyone is you. Some people are coming back to the game after a long time away and need time to figure their class out again. Some people have anxiety. Some people are disabled and have trouble with their reactions. Repeat ad nauseum because there are a whole laundry list of reasons someone might not be large pulling in a dungeon that don't automatically equate to them being 'bad' and should 'not play the tank class'.

This is no longer the case if you realize how much dumber the content we play today is in comparison to what it used to be, some people play with feets and could wall-to-wall in this game dungeons just fine, lvl 70+ dungeons are oversimplified and healers healing capabilities are overkill for the content. There is literally no excuse to pull 1 group instead of 2, since its all a tank could pull only 2 groups at time in newest dungeons. Even children could do it.