PLDs: You have Clemency for a reason.

[Kabooa]

Because it shouldn't be needed to be used if the healer is any way competent. Usually you don't notice you're on death's door until it's too late because you should be focused on managing cooldown usage, rotation and checking on enemy healthbars.

Except this is one of those cases where it was needed.

It doesn't matter whose fault it was at the end of the day - You have the unique capability to turn course, and the refusal to do so shouldn't be a mark of pride.

[Mavrias]

Except this is one of those cases where it was needed.

It doesn't matter whose fault it was at the end of the day - You have the unique capability to turn course, and the refusal to do so shouldn't be a mark of pride.

Because the healer was incompetent. The healer does not become better if every paladin they get spams clemency. I'd much rather wipe and talk to them about what they're doing wrong than carry them through the whole instance.

[Kabooa]

Because the healer was incompetent. The healer does not become better if every paladin they get spams clemency. I'd much rather wipe and talk to them about what they're doing wrong than carry them through the whole instance.

You have no control over someone else's progress, even if you attempt to aid them.

However, aiding them is not exclusive from preventing a wipe, so that's an odd point to bring up.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Except this is one of those cases where it was needed.

It doesn't matter whose fault it was at the end of the day - You have the unique capability to turn course, and the refusal to do so shouldn't be a mark of pride.

Think you keep missing the very valid points raised of focused on other things that are not a hp bar, and many points of not a mind reader.

Also at no point is any of this a "mark of pride", I just don't see it happen often where it is actually needed, and if the healer does go down (which has been more common than OP's scenario), I'm more than happy to spam Clemency on myself and dps if needed, to help finish off mobs or bosses.

I'm not saying "eww, why would I ever use that skill", I've been saying all this time don't EXPECT a paladin to use Clemency when you're struggling as a healer in content, nor demand a paladin cast Clemency to cover a lack in skill or gear.

I used the point of ~5% bene snipe as a point of trust your healer, and focus on your own tasks, and as a reasoning why it can be difficult to discern when a healer is struggling versus playing "how low can you go", nothing remotely in any regard to bragging.

[Mavrias]

You have no control over someone else's progress, even if you attempt to aid them.

However, aiding them is not exclusive from preventing a wipe, so that's an odd point to bring up.

You're correct I don't. Just as they can't control the way i utilize my tools. But again, I'd much rather teach than carry. Of course I can get through the duty spamming clemency the whole time. But it's not something i'm willing to do when the healer can just use their tools appropriately. OP even acknowledged themselves that they weren't using their toolkit well.

[Kabooa]

You're correct I don't. Just as they can't control the way i utilize my tools. But again, I'd much rather teach than carry. Of course I can get through the duty spamming clemency the whole time. But it's not something i'm willing to do when the healer can just use their tools appropriately. OP even acknowledged themselves that they weren't using their toolkit well.

OP also detailed the behavior of a -very bad tank-.

That is why I qualify what I say with "In the end, it doesn't matter whose fault it is". Stuff happens. Stuff hits the fan. The advice being offered is basic generic "this usually works". It takes longer to recover and 'do it right' than it does to just bite the bullet and use Clemency.

Again - Nothing prevents you from helping them -and- preventing the wipe. The two are not exclusive.

[Mavrias]

OP also detailed the behavior of a -very bad tank-.

That is why I qualify what I say with "In the end, it doesn't matter whose fault it is". Stuff happens. Stuff hits the fan. The advice being offered is basic generic "this usually works". It takes longer to recover and 'do it right' than it does to just bite the bullet and use Clemency.

Again - Nothing prevents you from helping them -and- preventing the wipe. The two are not exclusive.

If by "behavior of a very bad tank" you mean "sprinting, pulling big, and hitting defensives," sure. Then again, that's something i did on the first day shb dropped with no issue.

If it doesnt matter whose fault it is, then why did OP make an entire post blaming the paladin (and complaining about every other paladin as well) for every single wipe in that dungeon?

Wiping in a leveling dungeon means nothing to me. I'm not gonna die irl if we wipe. It's a lot easier to explain what to do when they can see the tangible difference between what they were (or were not) doing and the suggestions.

[Kabooa]

If by "behavior of a very bad tank" you mean "sprinting, pulling big, and hitting defensives," sure. Then again, that's something i did on the first day shb dropped with no issue.

Actually, reading the OP again, I think we all just got taken for a ride.

Read through it again, pay attention to the sequence of events, particularly, post second boss. Might just be me, but Holminster doesn't go like how its described.

[nynkt]

This post really reeks of entitlement and a poor mentality, and here’s my take on why.

Scholar takes a little bit more know-how to handle in dungeons than the other two healers, especially when undergeared (more on this later). It’s a very proactive healer, so if you manage to get to the “Adlo spam” point you’re long past screwed. A big thing I noticed is that you constantly mention being out of AF but never mention Dissipation, a tool that would both increase the gain on the Adlo’s you’re casting but also give you 3 stacks of Aetherflow. Additionally, using Sacred Soil is an absolute waste until around 78 when it gets an added regen. I suggest making use of other tools as well, like Fey Union & Eos’ skills, as well as doing a prepull shield before he sprints off to the world beyond. Speaking of which—if yyour tank sprints, try to sprint with them unless it’s on cooldown. (Which it shouldn’t be if you’ve been sprinting with them!)

Secondly, I don’t really understand the mentality of “I’m undergeared and my team wouldn’t babysit me so it’s their fault”. If you are undergeared then it is yours and nobody else’s responsibility to gear up. If you go into a dungeon and say you’re undergeared, 9 out of 10 times the party will be willing to accommodate you. But expecting everyone else to pick up your slack when you say nothing is really selfish and just makes this post give off a really entitled vibe.

Embarrassingly enough, most of what you described is the common Holminister pull set and the Paladin seemed to have done everything perfectly. He used Hallowed, presumably(?) used his other cooldowns as well, and pulled the mobs efficiently. If the DPS are slacking on the damage than his Holy Circle is even more valuable in place of Clemency. Of course, I draw the time at “I’m going to die if I don’t use this”—but a lot of healers let their tanks get low before bumping them back up to near full with an OGCD, so it can be hard to tell if your healer is competent in that regard or taking you for a ride.

Lastly, it’s okay to wipe. For various reasons. It might happen due to some unlucky rng, someone messing up, irl aggro, but it opens up the chance for you to discuss things with your party. If you’re uncomfortable with a pull, post-wipe clarity is the perfect time to bring it up. If you say nothing then go vent on the forums people are going to wonder why you didn’t speak up. Your party members can’t read your mind, so most of the time they will proceed as is normal unless something else is mentioned.

Hopefully this helps. I’m not trying to get on your case, just help you level up your SCH gameplay a bit! Please do be vocal with your teammates, most of the people in this game are very understanding. Oh, and try to get some gear, too. (: Those first few dungeon levels are really rough to heal but you’ll start feeling better around the 74-76 mark.

[Maeka]

Actually, reading the OP again, I think we all just got taken for a ride.

Read through it again, pay attention to the sequence of events, particularly, post second boss. Might just be me, but Holminster doesn't go like how its described.

I admitted later in the thread that my memory of the events were foggy due to me not running Holminster Switch in awhile.

I got confused, thinking the Gremlin area was after the 2nd boss, when it is after the 1st boss.

I don't have the Shadowbringers dungeons memorized off the top of my head, and I had posted this thread a few hours after the events in question actually happened. I just remembered that the tank immediately mashed sprint and took off on the very first pull, there was a wipe, and then later on with the Gremlin area, she ran me out of resources and kept overpulling with me being out of resources.

As for using Sprint, I also said earlier in the thread, that I have nothing against tanks using sprint, but uh,

How about not using Sprint and pulling the first three groups before you even test your healer, or even confirm they're ready?