PLDs: You have Clemency for a reason.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

The solution then is to pre form your own group, not expect DF to conform to your standards especially when you won't communicate them.

"But so should they!"

Well that's the problem of pugging innit, it put you and Speed Racer in the same group and obviously you two didn't get along. Solution for either of you is to put up or preform. Looks like you both chose to put up with it.

The "just make your own Party" argument, love seeing it as if it supposed to be the correct answer here. Speedrunners are supposed to group up and average / below-average players are supposed to be expected when entering DF, not the other way around.

Frankly, being a speedrunner myself, I am siding with Maeka in this case. In Duty Finder, everyone is equally responsible for survival, provided they have defensive or restorative tools in their kit. By default, this includes PLDs Clemency. If the healer is clearly being starved of resources during "optimal play", the next correct thing would be playing what is generally accepted as "suboptimal", as in using Clemency to reduce the healing burden. I believe I said it before, but I'll happily say it again:

"Survival > DPS. A dead person does no DPS."

The real problem is that noone knows when they should actually use Clemency because everyone tells them to not use it ever, meaning they never learn the situational awareness for it. And no, "if Healer is dead" is already a bit too late unless the Healer got one-shot. Personally, if I don't know the healer quite yet and don't know their responsiveness to my HP dropping, during my first Requiescat window I'll pop at least 1x Clemency to gauge if it ends up overhealing / unnecessary or not.

Maeka is every bit in the right to expect people to do sub optimal things to smoothen the run in the same way others can expect of Maeka to play suboptimally (no DPS for instance or clipping / triple use of OGCD) if it means saving them.

[Magnedeus]

You know op you might find this insensitive and rude, but i think it needs to be said. I honestly think you're not cut out for healing at this point in time. For 4 days straight you have had tanks here (mostly paladin mains i assume) tell you how Clemency should be used and when it should be used. And all you have been doing is shrugging them off and making invalid points. If you don't like tanks pulling a lot then play with trusts, you can pull 1 or 2 at time with them and not have to worry about wipes.

[Maeka]

You know op you might find this insensitive and rude, but i think it needs to be said. I honestly think you're not cut out for healing at this point in time. For 4 days straight you have had tanks here (mostly paladin mains i assume) tell you how Clemency should be used and when it should be used. And all you have been doing is shrugging them off and making invalid points. If you don't like tanks pulling a lot then play with trusts, you can pull 1 or 2 at time with them and not have to worry about wipes.

.....except there are several people in the thread who disagree that the points I've made are "invalid".

Just a few people who insist on wall to wall pulls 100% of the time, always, regardless of level/gear/etc, who insist every healer must be able to play at the very best, even in leveling dungeons, even while still learning the class.

It's just... um... ok. Whatever.

Apparently compromising isn't something that should ever be done, ever. "You're not very good at 3 group pulls so you should just never heal duty finder ever again and while you're at it, you should quit healing entirely!"

Let alone the fact that I do just fine, rather well even, on boss fights, and that I can do 3 group pulls easily as WHM, and comfortably as AST, and I just find SCH to be a bit too stressful, but only during 3 group pulls. "Oh, but we can't do 2 group pulls, because other people can do it fine!"

Is such a ridiculous and stupid argument to make. Honestly.

Ever wonder why the Adventurer In Need is almost always Healer for Leveling Roulette? To compare, I see Tank on Trials Roulette rather often (because it's boring as crap, when you got a 50/50 chance of being a gimp DPS on most fights).

This here is a big reason as to why. Most people don't have the patience to put up with BS like this.

EDIT: Also want to mention that some people are misrepresenting what I am saying. It seems like a couple of the biggest naysayers in this thread are trying to make out like I am saying that PLDs should be constantly casting Clemency on every pull. I never said that, and I never meant to imply that. I merely said that if you're hanging at 30%, or 25% or what-not for several seconds, that maybe you should consider casting it and don't just let yourself drop dead, and that a tank should have a decent situational awareness and look at more than their DPS buttons, and/or not burst out of the gate running full tilt the very moment "Duty Commenced" appears on the screen to actually see what the healer is wearing, what level they are, etc other considerations to take into account. If those points are "invalid" then... sheesh. I really don't know what to say. They seem like common sense to me. *shrug*

[Maeka]

Hmm, instead of editing the post for the millionth time, I'll make a new one to make another point:

The tank above who said that they pull 3 groups because "It's more fun!" is... kinda laughable. Unless the mobs have lots of AoEs (there's plenty pulls in plenty dungeons that don't), there's literally no difference between pulling 1 group, pulling 2 groups, or pulling 3 groups other than the time it takes to do the whole dungeon.

The only time this changes is when you have dungeons with mob groups that do frequent AoEs.

You do the exact same AoE rotations regardless of how many enemies there are, and you're still going to do much of the same defensive cooldown usage, other than perhaps popping Hallowed Ground.

So let's not kid ourselves into thinking that 3 group pulls are more "fun" and just admit it's all about speedrunning and being in such a hurry that an extra few minutes added onto a dungeon run is just something that you don't want.

Holminster is the odd one out this expansion. Of the leveling dungeons, outside Mt Gulg's megapulls, it's the most dangerous one. Nobody's got their new tools for the most part, and you might get paired with DPS who don't get significant expansions to their aoe through level 72 skills.

It should be noted that Stormblood leveling dungeons are indirectly nerfed with the baseline tanking changes, though Bardrams in particular feels like it got tuned down on 5.0 release.

I suppose there is that too.

I know that SCH gets a rather large healing buff at 74 which is after Holminster but I already discussed that earlier in the thread, yes.

Just seems like Holminster in particular was tuned a bit too high. I don't recall Sirensong or that Heavensward Dungeon (Iron Vigil? Stone Vigil? Something like that) being quite that hard (during their respective expansions while they were current content), other than that area with the DoT blizzards in the latter, and if you had a tank that didn't know how to exploit the deck of the ship and/or somebody stupid enough to attempt the entire zombie room in one pull in Sirensong with people who weren't Level Sync'd.

Maybe if I work up the notion to try again, maybe I will try Qitana Ravel as SCH when it gets to 75 and see if that is any smoother.

[Mavrias]

Oh, I see. Because you don't have fun with large pulls, the idea of them being entertaining to anyone is laughable. Not like there's a tangible difference in the mileage you get from your cooldowns, the damage your doing, etc. You don't seem like you tank a lot so you probably don't knos the difference between hitting 3 mobs with decimate spam and hitting 12 mobs with decimate spam.

Wild. You have a bad experience doing mass pulls, so the problem is everyone who likes to do big pulls and not your own inexperience with the job you're on. It can't be user error, SCH just can't do big pulls and Holminster is overtuned.

[Magnedeus]

"Let alone the fact that I do just finel, rather well even"

Gonna be blunt. If that's the case then this whole thread is meaningless and stupid and you've learned nothing. You spent literally 4 days complaining and arguing with everyone here only to say "I do just fine, rather well even."



And if you can't deal with with "BS like this" then play with trusts as i previously stated. Because it seems like you can't do dungeons with tank players without them pissing you off because they are not doing what you want them to.

[Barraind]

If Alphinaud can keep me up through 3 packs of mobs with his "i dont really even know what I'm doing but heres a heal i guess now im going to run in circles for a bit" approach to being a healer, the bar you're expected to slightly adjust your stride to step over is set almost imperceptabaly off the ground.

My favorite part is when you talk about a tank pulling things you literally cant pill at once because of how the instance works.

As an aside, sacred soil is pretty garbage until 78 due to how tank mitigation works. If they have a CD popped, soil is something like 4.8% damage reduction. Thats MUCH better as an extra lustrate or maintaining excog.

Also, if you think a 90 second cooldown guaranteed crit adlo (since it doesnt work on lustrate) is going to be a gamechanger in healing large pulls at 74, its most certainly not.

[Maeka]

As an aside, sacred soil is pretty garbage until 78 due to how tank mitigation works. If they have a CD popped, soil is something like 4.8% damage reduction. Thats MUCH better as an extra lustrate or maintaining excog.

Also, if you think a 90 second cooldown guaranteed crit adlo (since it doesnt work on lustrate) is going to be a gamechanger in healing large pulls at 74, its most certainly not.

Not like the game actually tells you this.

The tooltip says "those inside take 90% of incoming damage"

4.8% is not 10%, lol.

I expect tooltips to actually do what they say they do.

And if Sacred Soil is so darn useless, why do they give it to you so early in the game, if the Trait that makes it actually useful is not until Level Farking 78!?

Also, Critlos give a good 30% (if not more) of the tank's HP as a barrier. You don't think that a guaranteed 30% of their HP meter barrier is more useful than only getting it <10% of the time, and anytime it doesn't crit it's more like 10% of their HP makes a difference?

Also, Tactics+Critlo is more than half a tank's max health.

You spent literally 4 days complaining and arguing with everyone here only to say "I do just fine, rather well even."

Gotta love how people take things I say out of context, and/or omit relevant things I said that don't fit their skewed points they're trying to make.

1). I said "I do just fine ON BOSS FIGHTS, AND 2 GROUP PULLS AND 3 GROUP PULLS AS WHM AND AST". I like how you omitted that part to make it sound like I said "I do just fine all the time".
2). I never once said that I had no fault whatsoever in either of the wipes mentioned in this thread. That was never once said, nor implied, nor meant.

The entire thread is "If you're dying, and you know you're going to die, at least TRY to cast Clemency and see if that doesn't save the group from wiping".

This was never about "I'm in the right, they're in the wrong". I never said that, I never implied that, and I never meant that. Not once. Bringing up stuff like SCH being more difficult than the other two healers, Holminster being overtuned, etc is merely me defending myself from the plethora of personal attacks that are irrelevant to the main point of the thread.

This whole thread is about tanks who choose to drop dead when they COULD have saved themselves, but decided not to. Regardless of WHY it got that point in the first place, and in fact, I admitted that I am not all that comfortable with large pulls on SCH. I said that several times, even.

It seems like you're just trying to levy personal attacks at me, to belittle me and you're twisting my words to do so, and I will report if you keep doing it.

[Magnedeus]

Not like the game actually tells you this.

The tooltip says "those inside take 90% of incoming damage"

4.8% is not 10%, lol.

I expect tooltips to actually do what they say they do.

And if Sacred Soil is so darn useless, why do they give it to you so early in the game, if the Trait that makes it actually useful is not until Level Farking 78!?

Also, Critlos give a good 30% (if not more) of the tank's HP as a barrier. You don't think that a guaranteed 30% of their HP meter barrier is more useful than only getting it <10% of the time, and anytime it doesn't crit it's more like 10% of their HP makes a difference?

Also, Tactics+Critlo is more than half a tank's max health.



Gotta love how people take things I say out of context, and/or omit relevant things I said that don't fit their skewed points they're trying to make.

1). I said "I do just fine ON BOSS FIGHTS, AND 2 GROUP PULLS AND 3 GROUP PULLS AS WHM AND AST". I like how you omitted that part to make it sound like I said "I do just fine all the time".
2). I never once said that I had no fault whatsoever in either of the wipes mentioned in this thread. That was never once said, nor implied, nor meant.

The entire thread is "If you're dying, and you know you're going to die, at least TRY to cast Clemency and see if that doesn't save the group from wiping".

This was never about "I'm in the right, they're in the wrong". I never said that, I never implied that, and I never meant that. Not once. Bringing up stuff like SCH being more difficult than the other two healers, Holminster being overtuned, etc is merely me defending myself from the plethora of personal attacks that are irrelevant to the main point of the thread.

This whole thread is about tanks who choose to drop dead when they COULD have saved themselves, but decided not to. Regardless of WHY it got that point in the first place, and in fact, I admitted that I am not all that comfortable with large pulls on SCH. I said that several times, even.

It seems like you're just trying to levy personal attacks at me, to belittle me and you're twisting my words to do so, and I will report if you keep doing it.

Go ahead and do it then. i've already reported many of your posts days ago for valid reasons which i will not share here.

[Maeka]

Go ahead and do it then. i've already reported many of your posts days ago for valid reasons which i will not share here.

"For valid reasons".

Um... okay. Whatever, if you say so. Funny you chose not to say what those reasons actually are, or what rules I actually broke.

Apparently it's OK to omit things people said to misrepresent what they're saying, but it's not OK for me to express my opinion, and be a little annoyed at people throwing personal attacks at me over irrelevant/off topic points (which itself is against the rules). I only reported 1 person so far in this thread, who was overly rude with a blatant personal attack.

It's also rather funny that you won't even respond to the fact you twisted my words, and omitted parts of what I said to twist the actual meaning of what I said, in order to throw personal attacks at me.