Have we given up on SCH?

[jlewiss]

I'm not really having issues with healing, a potency buff or something on seraph would be nice or even a bit of a longer duration, dissipation i still forget exists more often then not and the dps is boring but sch dps was always boring, miasma etc. made it like more varied i guess but its always just been a spam button 1 class

[Saefinn]

I don't see any reason to complain about Seraph when you have Temperance and Neutral Sect in other hand, like i said, in general SCH is already in a perfect spot and people are mostly asking for old skill to come back and more buttons to smash and claming that as a "issue", because "the job is boring to play" instead a real issue in their skills, SCH real issues has already been fixed like spaming heals to build Fairy Gauge and huge MP amout for Arts of War, while WHM and AST are the ones at this moment who really need some fix, but 90% of time someone ask for a WHM fix people say, for example: "Did Momo said that?", "WHM is OP needs a nerf", "WHM has nothing wrong with it" and etc.

Every single day there's at least a new thread about SCH, if people want Shadow, Bane and etc back, create a Thread including all Healers, asking fot Aero III as well, a new AST AoE DoT that never had as well, because they deserves it too.

I mean "it's boring" is a real issue if you're wanting to enjoy what you're playing.

I mean SCH is in a good place in that it works well and is efficient and heals well and DPS's well. But that's meaningless if the job is no longer enjoyable to play. Just as people saying "there's nothing wrong with WHM" your saying "SCH is in a good place" is not wholly fair. Versus AST pre 5.05 then yes SCH and WHM were ahead of AST and well balanced in that respect, but there are valid complaints all round, even after AST got a boost and SCH got Energy Drain back. But I think those who focus on the numbers or how useful they are, they are kinda missing the point, the crux of complaints is not "balance", it was a little more so for AST but they've made steps to try and fix that already.

I think all healers are in a position where they feel dumbed down and less interesting to play for a good deal of people. If it were an issue of skill, I think my complaints of healer downtime would be less valid.

With regards to representing all, people will generally talk about fixes for the job that they play simply because it's the job they play. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree WHM and AST need their love, I don't presume to know best for their job. I figure those who play it know better than me.

With all that said, many threads HAVE been inclusive of other healers and some have been focused on specific healers. But in terms of putting in your own two cents, I think it makes more sense for WHM's to represent WHM's, AST's to represent AST's and SCH's to represent SCH's, because who am I to say how WHM's should be fixed when I rarely play it?

This thread I believed was only created because at the moment it seems SCH's have quietened down. We also have threads about why there's not so many WHM posts. But all it boils down to is the number of people who play those jobs coming to the forums to complain about them, which is a given.

[CrimsonGunner]

the bottom line is all 3 healer class suffer from identity crisis.
AST lost their identity the moment they lost the different card buffs.
WHM and AST kit are almost identical in every way soon they can be each other glamor system.
SCH kit not only suffer from the same treatment as the other 2 ,SE basically butchered the SCH with a chainsaw and chop his kit to pieces and made a mess( pets,heals,dots u name it) ,it lost so much even the devs don't know what he is anymore.

in terms of identity and kit the only one who is fine is WHM because he is the template on which they are making AST and SCH.
the major issue among the healers is AST and SCH losing their unique tools and basically become a new WHM skin.

but among all healers SCH is by far in the worst shape cause literally from its core kit its suffer the most,while WHM kit straightforward and is clear where its heading ,AST just need to get his card system fix and his kit will be fine and also clear where hes headed but SCH kit on the other hand is farther from fine.
its clear that SE doesn't know wth it wants this class to become and nobody knows probably not even the Devs right now know what direction they taking the SCH to pet class/self cast support/pale mimic of WHM but again only time will tell.

SCH indeed suffer from a lot of issues pets issues/potencies issues/dps heck even shield to heal ration issue the list literally goes on and on. from what i see SE need to lock down on their image of what SCH is ,what his unique play from them ,what buffs he gives and wth his pets should be capable of doing cause right now selene/eos are each other egi glamor and having both is wasted buttons that can be just one that called summon fairy and seraph is definitely underwhelming as a pet cause tbh its more a fairy glamor only with a bit stronger potency.

[DenzelVilliers]

"Others have bad abilities too, why complain about your bad ability?" And honestly, if they never release a 4th healer, I find it'd be for the best. They can't handle 3. They completely gutted AST and SCH of everything that made them fun and unique for the sake of "balance" (good job btw, square, healers are still unbalanced, with the meta for the as prevalent as it has always been, just changed who was in the meta) and still haven't addressed any of the problems WHM has had for YEARS. Why on Earth would I ever want a 4th healer thrown into that mix? Just so they can gut the classes even more for the sake of "balance"?

The question here is that there's no "bad skills" to Begin with, no "real issues" to Begin with, are just people asking for more buttons to smash. And i didn't said that you can't ask for more, i did said if you going to ask for more, ask for ALL OF THEM, not Only one, if you want SCH AoE DoTs back ask for AST(new)/WHM AoE DoTs back as well, they can't handle 3 because people is always asking for especific Healers and unbalanced stuff, while some healers ( Aka WHM ) always keep aside from anything and eventually forgotten because they become worthless.

"They completely gutted AST and SCH of everything that made them fun and unique for the sake of "balance"... no, they didn't took away those skills for the "sake of balance", damage skills could be nerfed for "the sake of balance" instead litetally deleted, they took those skills away to force healers to be "pure heal", not to only "balance". No one is asking for SCHs be nerfed or anything else to the "sake of balance", "for the sake of balance" they must have equivalent skills that compensate between them ( equivalent ≠ same ).

And it's funny to you to say that, as SCH and AST are the biggest "victim" here, when WHM lost over 50% of their Skill Kit, their Traits, their Potencies and more, every expansion WHM loses more than actually gains and do you think that SCH/AST is boring now, that SCH/AST are the ones who always lose Skills?, oh please WHM say hi, they are the one who's completly gutted always without any reason for it, especially in SB and ShB.

[CrimsonGunner]

The question here is that there's no "bad skills" to Begin with, no "real issues" to Begin with, are just people asking for more buttons to smash. And i didn't said that you can't ask for more, i did said if you going to ask for more, ask for ALL OF THEM, not Only one, if you want SCH AoE DoTs back ask for AST(new)/WHM AoE DoTs back as well, they can't handle 3 because people is always asking for especific Healers and unbalanced stuff, while some healers ( Aka WHM ) always keep aside from anything and eventually forgotten because they become worthless.

"They completely gutted AST and SCH of everything that made them fun and unique for the sake of "balance"... no, they didn't took away those skills for the "sake of balance", damage skills could be nerfed for "the sake of balance" instead litetally deleted, they took those skills away to force healers to be "pure heal", not to only "balance". No one is asking for SCHs be nerfed or anything else to the "sake of balance", "for the sake of balance" they must have equivalent skills that compensate between them ( equivalent ≠ same ).

And it's funny to you to say that, as SCH and AST are the biggest "victim" here, when WHM lost over 50% of their Skill Kit, their Traits, their Potencies and more, every expansion WHM loses more than actually gains and do you think that SCH/AST is boring now, that SCH/AST are the ones who always lose Skills?, oh please WHM say hi, they are the one who's completly gutted always without any reason for it, especially in SB and ShB.

WHM kit may be gutted from skills and iconic ones at that but the overhaul kit remains true to what WHM is and their view of him.it didn't lost its identity just a few skills .
WHM is still a straightforward and classic healer as he was and will remain a fav among those who liked the simple job of healing despite what SE did to the poor job.
dont get me wrong all healers are a mess but WHM is the only one who SE kept its core(only cause his core was the plain healer and there was nothing to take).

[Hatstand]

The question here is that there's no "bad skills" to Begin with, no "real issues" to Begin with, are just people asking for more buttons to smash. And i didn't said that you can't ask for more, i did said if you going to ask for more, ask for ALL OF THEM, not Only one, if you want SCH AoE DoTs back ask for AST(new)/WHM AoE DoTs back as well, they can't handle 3 because people is always asking for especific Healers and unbalanced stuff, while some healers ( Aka WHM ) always keep aside from anything and eventually forgotten because they become worthless.

"They completely gutted AST and SCH of everything that made them fun and unique for the sake of "balance"... no, they didn't took away those skills for the "sake of balance", damage skills could be nerfed for "the sake of balance" instead litetally deleted, they took those skills away to force healers to be "pure heal", not to only "balance". No one is asking for SCHs be nerfed or anything else to the "sake of balance", "for the sake of balance" they must have equivalent skills that compensate between them ( equivalent ≠ same ).

And it's funny to you to say that, as SCH and AST are the biggest "victim" here, when WHM lost over 50% of their Skill Kit, their Traits, their Potencies and more, every expansion WHM loses more than actually gains and do you think that SCH/AST is boring now, that SCH/AST are the ones who always lose Skills?, oh please WHM say hi, they are the one who's completly gutted always without any reason for it, especially in SB and ShB.

I mean, there are lots of AST threads out there so I don’t really think they need the representation here. As for WHM

1. I do acknowledge that they also need help, but this thread is to talk about SCH specifically. One of the problems with current healers is homogenisation, with all the healers feeling like WHM+X. If we ask for the same changes to all 3 healers, they’re up just going to end up feeling like WHM+X+Y.

2. SE has existing assets for SCH, so it would be incredibly easy for them to put some of the skills people are missing back in. Which makes the fact that they haven’t done it worse. I understand saying “we have other things to work on and don’t have time to come up with new moves for you mid expansion”. I don’t understand saying “we have all the assets and all it would take is some potency changes other classes are getting anyway but we’re not going to just because”. (Or just because they have a healer ideology that flies in the face of what it’s actually like to play healer.)

3. WHM has been like this for years. I haven’t played it much. The other two were my favourites. And yet WHM was still the most popular healer (or at least a popular healer), so there must have been something that the people who played it liked about it. That makes me hesitant to ask for changes on their behalf, because what if I ask for a change to the things they like? A lot of old WHM mains seem to like current SCH and I think current SCH is a travesty (compared to what it could be), and I wouldn’t want to put them in my position where WHM becomes something I like and they hate. So, I’ll aupport them in their campaigns, and even throw an idea out here and there, but I’m not going to campaign directly for specific WHM changes.

[CrimsonGunner]

in the end what i'm saying is SE decided lets ruin the healing role for all jobs.
WHM will be the base,the first that get butchered in skills and all will be made in its shadow which will become a mere copy.

it isn't just an issue of whats wrong with a specific job,its should concern the whole healer community since all are feeling it.
WHM /AST/SCH we will all suffer from this unless SE will make a good and proper plan and vision to their classes otherwise all the different healer jobs will become one and every healer job can say "i am grot".

[Saefinn]

The question here is that there's no "bad skills" to Begin with, no "real issues" to Begin with, are just people asking for more buttons to smash. And i didn't said that you can't ask for more, i did said if you going to ask for more, ask for ALL OF THEM, not Only one, if you want SCH AoE DoTs back ask for AST(new)/WHM AoE DoTs back as well, they can't handle 3 because people is always asking for especific Healers and unbalanced stuff, while some healers ( Aka WHM ) always keep aside from anything and eventually forgotten because they become worthless.

You may not be saying "you can't ask for more" but you are dismissing them by suggesting they're not real issues. Of course they're real issues. If a job has been made boring when it hasn't always been. That's a real issue.

How useful its skills doesn't make a difference if you're no longer having fun with it. Unless you're one of those who values efficiency over it.

Homogenisation is another issue because healer playability is more homogenised than it has ever been.

And it's funny to you to say that, as SCH and AST are the biggest "victim" here, when WHM lost over 50% of their Skill Kit, their Traits, their Potencies and more, every expansion WHM loses more than actually gains and do you think that SCH/AST is boring now, that SCH/AST are the ones who always lose Skills?, oh please WHM say hi, they are the one who's completly gutted always without any reason for it, especially in SB and ShB.

In Billy's defence, Billy acknowledged that SE hasn't addressed WHM's problems for years. AST and SCH this time around got hit hardest BUT that's only because WHM already had their's happen gradually. We know WHM doesn't get the love it needs. Prolly hence the emphasis on "YEARS".

[Brightamethyst]

The biggest issue with all the healers right now is that the devs's 'intended design' is completely at odds with actual gameplay.

They removed and simplified DPS and cards while adding a lot of healing abilities. That clearly says they want more healing and less DPSing, but they didn't change the battle system or fight mechanics to support that play style. Healing is still incredibly strong and incoming damage is still incredibly predictable. Outside of doing huge pulls in dungeons, nothing requires that much healing. We still spend most of our time DPSing, it's just more boring now.

[DenzelVilliers]

I mean SCH is in a good place in that it works well and is efficient and heals well and DPS's well. But that's meaningless if the job is no longer enjoyable to play. Just as people saying "there's nothing wrong with WHM" your saying "SCH is in a good place" is not wholly fair.

It's fair because as you said, SCH works well, are good Damage Dealer and Healers and want more skills just "to be fun" to play with, while WHM/AST needs some skill rework to become more efficient because their skills has some issues to be fixed, not only be fun, a more urgent question to deal with and waste time and resources to improve it above anything else.

But WHM/AST also deserves to be fun, also deserves some skills back to be fun if SCH requires for it.

WHM has 22 Unique Skills in their hotbar, AST/SCH has 26 Unique Skills in their hotbar. WHM must spam Holy for AoE ( 1 skill ), Dia and Glare for Single Target ( 2 skills ) and has Afflatus Misery and Assize as CDs ( 5 skills total ), AST must spam Gravity for AoE ( 1 skill ), Malefic IV and Combust III for Single Target ( 2 skills ) and has Earthly Star as CDs ( 4 Skills total ), SCH must spam Arts of War for AoE ( 1 skill ), Broil III, Ruin II and Biolysis for Single Target ( 3 skills ) and Energy Drain as CD ( 5 skills total ), they have basically the same amount of damage skills and yet SCH still have more options to do in single target fight. As you can see, that's not a "SCH issue to be fun", it's a General Healer issue to be fun, not only one, all of them deserves to be requested and comtemplated for it and we need to ask for improvment about every single one.

I don't think anyone is going to complain if people open threads that reaches all Healers point instead ask for only one, most of people is looking for a balance between them, not only for a new healer but for ingame content as well, FFXIV Producers can't hear all Players plea to improve the game, but they hear many of them and applies improvements based on it, when we don't openly talk about what's going on in general they can pick up some requests here and there ignoring what's matter and the real problem ( some requests that not even was really relevant ).